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History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by KKx125, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. 1929CDAN
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 343

    1929CDAN
    Member

    putnam road course sept 10 2011 057.jpg And a few more. Hope you like.

    putnam road course sept 10 2011 079.jpg

    putnam road course sept 10 2011 087.jpg

    putnam road course sept 10 2011 088.jpg
     
  2. Dadburgess
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 28

    Dadburgess
    Member

    D.K. Cumberworth was the owner of the midget and has had a very impressive list of drivers in its long history. The car must be seen to appreciate it's true beauty, and it raced in this condition too - this is not just a pretty restoration! D.K's probably still got a pair of his "white ducks" tucked away in a closet.
     
  3. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    I agree. I never saw a Cumberworth car looking less than the best. Is this not one of Boob Logan's hand made custom bodies?

    Doc
     
  4. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    This is the how the Don Cumberworth Offy looked in 1947.

    Henry Banks in the Lindsay Hopkins Offy at Lakeside Speedway in Denver 1947.
     

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  5. Ken_Schou
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 822

    Ken_Schou
    Member

    Merry
    Christmas
    and a Healthy & Happy New Year
    to all.
    For those of you who will be on the road,
    keep it off the wall.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  6. metal bender
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 177

    metal bender
    Member
    from texas

    WOW, that car went from a Kurtis to an Edmunds ??????
     
  7. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    That car is not an Edmunds - it is Kurtis Kraft chassis # 119. It was built in 1947.

    Lindsay Hopkins was the first owner followed by: Ollenberger & Ryan, Frank Magarian, Adolph Bonini, Jack London and finally Don Cumberworth.

    The body underwent many modifications while owned by Bonini, London and Cumberworth. It certainly appears to have had work done by Edmunds. Jerry Weeks did the restoration.
     
  8. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    I don't know, I've seen an Edmunds re-skin of a Kurtis. That would be the older car that Doug Caruthers toted around for a spare for Jimmy and Danny. I want to say it was the Anthony Offy, but my mind is fogged by wrapping too many Christmas presents. [Iwas close; it was the Alexander Offy.] Anyway, Don built a body that more or less followed the original lines, but was just a more refined and well-fitted body. To me, the Cumberworth car just looks like it might have been done by Boob.

    Regardless, Jerry Weeks is one of the finest tin men ever to exist. That explains the quality of the restoration.

    Incidentally, I saw Henry Banks drive that car back in my very young days.

    Doc
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  9. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'DocF, 'Thanks for that bit of info regarding "Alex's Offy." 'Without checking my history books, that might be the car that Alexander bought from Joe Lynch in Garden Grove. Jimmy Caruthers drove the Alexander Offy in some west coast USAC midget races before "he was good enough to drive his Dad's car," and before he left to go into the service.

    For that 1971 season, all I remember are the two "Man & Boy" SESCO's on that big yellow tandem trailer that Doug had for Jimmy and Danny. And when you've got Jim Williams wrenching on the two cars, 'didn't see the need for another spare. But hey, I could be wrong?

    note: One small tip that I can offer: Please don't doubt the word or credibilty of monkaz when it comes to discussing anything about Kurtis Kraft midgets.

    ...'Which brings up the formerly mentioned D.K. (Don) Cumberworth Offy. I wonder if that was the #72 car that Johnny Baldwin and Mike McGreevy drove for Adolf Bonini and if so, I wonder about the whereabouts of another Jack London Kurtis Kraft (type) Offy car that Burt Foland drove and was sold to Bob Thomas of Walnut Creek (CA) after the 1970 racing season???
     
  10. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'DocF, 'In fact, racer5c and I were discussing this car a few weeks ago and I scanned a portion of the program for Roy from the Oct. 1966 USAC National midget race at the Altamont Speedway half-mile in California. This was the Friday night race promoted by J.C. Agajanian, before the Sunday afternoon USAC National big car race at Sacramento.

    Scroll down to the #27X car of Jimmy Caruthers.

    As far as "re-skinning" a Kurtis; there were a ton of Kurtis-type cars that were refitted with Don Edmunds style hood and noses. 'Most were fiberglass, though. 'Even better looking was the sprint car builder, Fred Kain (who just recently passed away) who built a few midgets. The nose for his cars were identical to Edmunds except they were a few inches longer and (IMHO) were a little more attractive. And still utilized the Edmunds grill.
     

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  11. Little Fauss,
    Not to go off the topic of the Cumberworth car but…you brought up the Bob Thomas Kurtis Offy #5. It was the #72 V-8 60 pictured below. I think this was about 1959. . My dad told me that this car was Porter or Moe Goffs but he could have been wrong. Do you know for sure? After this it went to Jack London and became the #4 car pictured below that Johnny Baldwin and Chuck Booth drove for London.This car is close to my heart because my Dad purchased this car from London about mid 1962 as pictured below, and owned it until 1967. After he and Vukie won the 1966 BCRA championship, he sold it to Bob Consoni for Vukie to drive. Consoni had it for a few years and it ended up going back and forth between Jack London and Burt Foland. Foland owned and drove it as #5 in the early 70’s. London sold it to Bob Thomas in 1971 or 72. I spoke with Bob Thomas yesterday and he didn’t know who he sold it to, but I do. Rex Bolin #48 pictured below bought it and raced one race in 1973. It was never to be seen again, nor was Rex Bolin. We have been looking for this car for the last 35 years. It seems to have vanished from the face of the earth! Anyone who has any knowledge of this car or driver it would be much appreciated. As for the car of Bonini that London had I know that the #5 Bowes car that Tony Bettenhausen drove was owned by Bonini first as a kit from Kurtis. It is a private collection at this time. So did London actually have two different Bonini cars that he cleaned up, raced and resold? Not trying to get in a pissin’ match just trying to clear up the history of my Dad’s car. This is all murky due to the fact that from about 1960-68 I know of at least 5 different Kurtis Offy’s London bought, rebodied and sold. I believe the one that Burt Foland drove so much, also #4, was purchased by Leonard Fass when he bought all of Londons stuff in about 1969, later to become the King-O-Lawn cars. Could use some help clearing this all up if anyone else has any recollections of this BCRA London history.
    That Altamont program also has Vukie in the # 10 Stryker Offy listed kinda funny that’s the same car #72 that you asked about in that post.
    Merry Christmas to all of you !
     

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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  12. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Stryker's Custom,

    Wow! What a mess. I think you are getting confused because you are referencing three different cars!

    Car 1. Your fathers car was originally a V8-60 from Southern California owned by Henning "Junior" Loock, Moe Goff bought it from Carl Bliss and ran it in NorCal as a #72 V8-60. London bought it and had Jack Hageman rebody it. The car ended up with Bob Thomas who sold it to Rex Bolen. As you said, at that point it disappeared. About fifteen years ago Thomas said it might be in the Denver area?

    Car 2 Adolph Bonini had a K.K. ( Chassis X124) that he had rebodied by Bob Allinger - to my mind it is the best looking K.K. midget. Adolph ran it as a purple 98 with a Continental engine. Bonini sold it to Jack London who painted it white black and red #5 - This was Foyt's West Coast ride. It is owned by by Bill Bothello and it was restored by your father.

    Car 3 This is the car I referenced in my post #3127 as the Lindsay Hopkins Offy that went through the hands of various owners including Adolph Bonini and Jack London.

    So the answer to your question is - yes, Adolph Bonini had two cars that he sold to Jack London.
     
  13. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'Nice! You guys are doing a great job of deciphering all this info into layman's terms! So, thanks for that. But all very, very interesting.

    So, with the enclosed photo, inside of Mike McGreevy's, Porter Goff "Easter Egg" car #7 is the Jack London Offy #4 (actually temp. #"14") driven by Chuck Booth. The car that Harry Stryker would eventually buy later that year. After all, as was customary, BCRA would open up the outdoor season on Sacramento's, Capital Speedway half-mile dirt oval in early March every year in the early/mid sixties. This was 1962.

    'Quick glance at the record book shows Billy Vukovich scored USAC national championship wins for Harry Stryker in 1966 at Vallejo (CA) and Kearney Bowl in Fresno (CA), as well as a BCRA championship and in 1967 driving for Bob Consani at the San Jose (CA) Speedway. The car also played a major role in Burt Foland's two BCRA championships in 1967 & 1968.

    When it was noted that Burt Foland was at one time an owner of this car, "technically" he was. As the story goes, someone challenged the by-laws of the Bay Cities Racing Association that prevented a current business manager from being an active car owner. Since Jack London was business manager, he reluctantly and officially "sold" the #5 Kurtis Offy car to Burt Foland (his driver) for $1.00! That law was over-turned a few years later when Chuck Robin became BCRA business manager.

    Next: the search for the Lloyd Ridge Offy!
     

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  14. Jim Nise
    Joined: Oct 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,151

    Jim Nise
    Member

    From the sprint car thread

    [​IMG]
     
  15. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    A.J. Foyt in the #5 Jack London Offy battles Bill Cantrell in the #2 Jack London Offy at Ascot in 1963.
    The #5 car is the former Adolph Bonini #98 and the #2 is the former #72 Adolph Bonini Offy that Jack London sold to Don Cumberworth.
     

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  16. Thanks You guys for geting me straightend out.
    So lets see if I got it straight now .
    Bob Dejong #98 Stryker Offy former Moe Goff #72 London #4
    Bill Cantrell #2 London former #72 Bonini now Cumberwoth Offy.
    I Know it was 1963 but what track??
     

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    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  17. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Stryker's Custom,

    You still have it wrong. Bill Cantrell is in the London 2 which was the Bonini 72 - not the Bonini 98. The 5 London Offy was the former Bonini 98 !
    I mentioned the name of the track - Ascot.
     
  18. I got it.
    Sorry for my typo. I corrected earlier post.
    I understand the history of both the cars that came from Bonini to London.
    I guess that it was just a coincidence that the Goff Car and the Cumberworth car were both #72 at one time because the white #72 in my first post was Not the 72 that became the Cumberwoth car. The roll bar on the white #72 is a obvious tell tail sign that was with that stayrd with that car.
    I was asking the track for the picture I posted with Bob Dejong and Cantrell. Not the one with Foyt.
    Thanks Again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  19. metal bender
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 177

    metal bender
    Member
    from texas

    Whos, on 3rd. no whos on 1st , realy nobodys home !!!!! WOW :eek:
     
  20. btjones
    Joined: Aug 15, 2009
    Posts: 21

    btjones
    Member


    I can't help with the missing years but I do remember when (Uncle)Doug had the car originally it did have a cage on it, and a wing. I don't think you'll find much on the car in the 80's. It was a good car in its day but never great. By the time he sold it in the early eighties it had been sitting for a couple years. (Doug had switched to driving an upright with a Volkswagon engine around 78). From what I remember, he siad it handled pretty good but it was too damn heavy. So, who ever ran it in the midwest probably didn't do much.

    It's good to see the car again. I'm glad its still around.

    Have you talked to Steves' mom (Jane)? She may remember something about it. Or, check with ....Was it CORA that raced in alot in the midwest back then?
     
  21. Here,s something to see.
     

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  22. TommyA19
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 240

    TommyA19
    Member

    Gorgeous car. The cars of yesterday were so much bettr looking!
     
  23. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Of course they looked better. These cars were built to last and the owners took pride in them. Today, we have disposable race cars. Many chassis are only good for about 10 shows before they start to break down. No pride in the cars on the part of either the owners or builders, IMHO. Of course, I am older than dirt. :p

    Doc
     
  24. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    I posted something like this several days ago and it ended up wandering around in the great abyss that is cyberspace.

    I yield to no one in my respect for MonkAZ's knowledge regarding Kurtis Kraft midgets. I was not arguing with him regarding the rebody on the Don Cumberworth car at all.

    At this remove, with a car that had been through so many owners and so much remodling, it is difficult to look at a car and identify who did what to it. I see some clues that made me think it might have been Boob Logan who did the final configuration. Look at how the belly pan pieces are joined with the little "flaps" to help keep dirt out of the car. This is a characteristic that Logan used a lot. If the hood and nose are aluminum, I would say it is very possible that he did the work as he was one of the great panel beaters of all time. Boob even built the bottoms for a couple of Les Staudacher's unlimited hydroplanes out of a single piece of aluminum rather than the more usual strips bolted to plywood.

    I've seen this car very early (as the Hopkins Offy) and late (as the Cumberworth Offy). I did not see it, that I know of with intervening owners.

    Doc
     
  25. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Speaking of great looking midgets from the long distant pass, how about Duane Pappy Carter's immaculate "Speed Age Spl." built by Emil Deidt and Curly Wetteroth.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  26. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,128

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Here's a real Jewel that got rebodied and is still a Jewel. I do have a little trouble with the flames however.



    [SIZE=+0]On the placard, three glowing errors...[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+0]"bare-staff" should be Babe Stapp[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+0]"tillison" should be Willison[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=+0]"183.3 mph" shouldn't be.[/SIZE]
     

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  27. kholm65
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 145

    kholm65
    Member
    from NY

    Ronnie Evans 1962
     

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  28. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,104

    the shadow
    Member

    I have 2 questions about early 1940's midgets to ask you guru's of open wheeled racers. as stated in the past I have a 1940's 76" wb midget that I am slowely putting back together. The previous owner told me the fuel tank was originally a 5 gallon military steel "jerry can" but it was rusted & damaged so he threw it out? My question is, did anyone ever use those cans as fuel tanks on early midgets & if so how were the mounted? the second question is, there are no fuel cap acess hole in m rear alum body, am I to assume the took the rear body off before a race to fill up what ever gas tank they had then re-installed the bod, or do you think the had some type of acess through the seat up-right panel?
    I am trying to do a some what accurate re-assembly so I don't want to just plug a plastic fuel cell in nor do I want to put any acess hole where the never had them in the early 1940's midgets?

    any suggestions would be great, thanks!

    Paul
     
  29. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,128

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  30. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,104

    the shadow
    Member

     

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