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History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by KKx125, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    No they were not. Actually, a good handling car at speed required very little muscle to drive. It is the wheel spacers and the extreme offset big tires that make the current cars drive like tanks.

    Sonny Ates, Grandpa Hartley, Jimmy Knight, Jimmy Hines, Dick Jones, Tom Bigelow, Arnie Knepper and Bob Wente are just some of the guys from our time who come to mind as smallish guys.

    Doc
     
  2. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Can anyone Identify the car Mike Mcgreevy is driving in these Motor Life Mag April 1961 photos? It looks to read Golden Bear Ford on the hood, im guessing it to be the Goff car I've been trying to find photos of? Can anyone confirm this for me, car #20 and it won the feature according to the artical. Oakland Expo Building 1961 & thanks to Lumpy for posting them also.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  3. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ


    The car was owned by Porter Goff. It was a blue and yellow V8-60.
    By the way indoor pictures are not very good for identification. The owners cobbled up cars using every bent up piece of sheet metal they had laying around because they were going to get banged up!
    The sponsors were usually local Oakland watering holes and restaurants that offered temporary sponsorship.
     
  4. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Thanks Monkaz
    Was hopeing someone would be able to confirm this was one the Goff's cars & a idea on the colors of the car also. Now just need someone to say hey I got photos of that thing laying around here, I cant tell you how helpful the photos and advice I've gotten on the H.A.M.B so far have been.
     
  5. jimg12
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 307

    jimg12
    Member

    Doc,
    When I drove for Mr. Hartley in 66 I was 150 pounds. Bet Sonny was not over 135.
    Jim Graybeal
     
  6. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Jim, All I had was a picture of Ted Hartley from around 1964.
     

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  7. Interesting that you should post that picture. Iam about to make up one of these myself.

    My preference however to bend it the old style with the curved sections before the hoop at the top that mimic the head rest on the tail section. If you get my drift.

    Anyone made up one of those ?

    I am curious to know how difficult or easy that is and if you need any special tools apart from the bender to achieve that result.
     
  8. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member


    I helped bend up a roll bar that followed the tail contour for a guy who had brought a sprint car. He usually raced it with a cage as a super modified on the West Michigan circuit. He wanted to run with IMCA, so he needed a roll bar. We made the roll bar in two pieces (which is the way most of these bars were bent up). If one is not experienced in using a mandrel bender, this may well be the only approach for you.

    Doc
     
  9. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    I suppose I should explain that I first met Ted Hartley when I was 4 years old. He was one of my heroes. Over the years when we got more active in the midgets we started spending more and more time with the Hartleys and Coxie Bowman and his wife. These fine folks were always enjoyable to be around. Of course, Ted was being called the racing grandfather back in 1946 when I first met him. He was still called the racing grandfather when he ran his last race in 1980. We all looked at him as if he was our grandfather, thus I called him Grandpa Hartley for a long, long time.

    I loved him and learned a lot from him.

    Doc
     
  10. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,028

    Speedwrench
    Member

    A friend who builds sprinters in Flordia has done a few one piece contour roll bars for local restoreres and says they are a pain in the butt to do.
     
  11. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,028

    Speedwrench
    Member

    You might also want to take a careful look at how you brace the roll bar to prevent foldover problems.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  12. KKx125
    Joined: Dec 22, 2008
    Posts: 71

    KKx125
    Member

    Looks like an OFFY,i wonder why the Block was reversed in an upright.SPEEDY
     
  13. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,128

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Good eye and good question Gordon, if the answer doesn't appear from someone in the know shortly, I think I can get it.
     
  14. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    The answer is simply that the engine was intentionally assembled "backwards" as it was originally in Ted's home built roadster.

    You know, it is especially good to be discussing a guy who ran his first race in 1917 and his last in 1980 (indoors at Cincinnati).

    Doc
     
  15. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Here is Ted Hartley in his roadster at Milwaukee in 1958.
     

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  16. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Is that not Gene by the left front wheel?

    Doc
     
  17. Steve Bonesteel
    Joined: Aug 31, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Steve Bonesteel
    Member
    from Clovis, Ca

    Photos of the roadster first owned and drove by Doug Graig taken today, back on it's wheels!!!
     

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  18. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    Steve, How manny roadsters do you own? Thought we might see you at the Walt James Classic, Weather and track were both good. Happy Holidays! See you on track 2012
     
  19. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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  20. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,679

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Gang,
    I was at the Turkey Night races at Irwindale last week and took some shots of the vintage cars on display. This unrestored black car was interesting, having some sort of boat motor for power. I guess it was pre 1930s, and I don't know any more about it as the owner was not at the car. It was very small and light and had some interesting front axle "bones" - one was horizontal, I assume to work like a dead perch. Clever? Gary
     

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  21. Gary, the "boat motor" is an Elto 360 outboard. Many of these were converted for midget racing before WW II, and ran through the 40's. They are a 2 stroke and ran oil mixed in the fuel. When a few Eltos showed up, the crowd had no worries about mosquitos! Like the Drake V twins, their advantage was their light weight. They could give the V8 60s fits on a hard slick dirt track.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  22. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Simply beautiful!

     
  23. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,128

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    What a wonderful old car, the #90, and looks all complete.

    I do question the wheels however. Either they are something I'm totally ignorant of or they are an unusual creation, probably later day, to maybe satisfy a 12" requirement.

    I hope the owner lets it be as is. Just authenticate or replace the wheels and replicate a grille.

    I hope someone is familiar with this car and can perhaps provide info on who built it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  24. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Dean, I do not think that is an Elto 4-60 as it appears to be an inline engine and the Eltos were an opposed quad. I do think it it a two-stroke engine and an quite sure it is marine. That would make it a Van Blerck as Joe Van Blerck built both two and four stroke cross flow inline four marine engines.

    Regardless, this car is well worthy of a nice restoration. It has a good body, a professional frame and it will make up into a nice piece, for sure.

    Oh yeah, the wheels are either trailer or garden tractor modern wheels. We picked up some dish pan mags that would look good on this car. PM me for some contact info if interested.

    Doc
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  25. N8B
    Joined: Sep 28, 2009
    Posts: 476

    N8B
    Member

    Subscribed.
    I recently had the opportunity to tour the personal Caruso Family collection.
    I have never seen so many pristine authentic Kurtis cars in one spot. Above and beyond that the most impressive collection of Offy & Riley engines in one spot.
    I will post photos once I have them downloaded.

    Great thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  26. The 90 is an Elto outboard. It belongs to Ken hillberg. It is a barnfind, and, other than the wheels, exactly as he found it. Ken started running it with the WRA in the mid 80's. It runs fairly well, for what it is. How it looks now is how it looked when Ken found it. He has no plans to change a thing on it.
     
  27. Spike Gillespie
    Joined: Nov 13, 2009
    Posts: 54

    Spike Gillespie
    Member

    Hey, Buildy, nice u-tube film clips, Thanks,

    Spike
     
  28. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    OK, I understand. This engine setup looks completely different than did the Elto engines I have seen, but then, they were all Midwestern cars.

    Regardless of its condition, that car is a rare piece and a keeper. The body is obviously done by a professional and the chassis looks very professional too. If I were to guess, I would say it is 1934 vintage as that is when midget racing caught the attention of the pro car builders.

    Doc

    PS: I've actually seen cars raced for real that looked that rough. Our ex-Ken Brenn Offy did when we ran Sedalia the day after it had been rolled out of the ball park the night before at Whitmore Lake, MI.
     
  29. N8B
    Joined: Sep 28, 2009
    Posts: 476

    N8B
    Member

    Here are a few fun photos. I know a lot of these are quarters but it was an incredible experience for my son and I neglected a lot of the big boy stuff.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  30. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ


    It is hard to believe but a fellow named Chuck Grieme(sp) tried to run that car in a USAC midget race at Ascot in 1962 or 1963. There is evidence of this on one of Dick Wallens midget racing tapes. It shows Grieme in that car, looking exactly as it looks in your photo, riding a wheel and flipping on the 1/4 mile track.
     

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