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History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by KKx125, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    The Tony Saylor Offy roadster at Soldier Field Chicago 1964.
     

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  2. tractorguy
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 623

    tractorguy
    Member

    Does anyone know how to contact Bill Montgomery who wrote the two books about Kurtis midgets ? I am trying to decipher stampings on the frame of an old Kurtis midget project that has been sitting in my garage for over 25yrs.
    I have both of the books published by Bill Montgomery but I need to get more information on identification of Kurtis midgets. Thanks
     
  3. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    I believe monkaz on here can can answer your questions, send him a PM,he will respond.
     
  4. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Needed!!!! Pictures of vintage BCRA & USAC Kurtis Shilala midget owned by Porter & Moe Goff in the late 50's purchased by Bob Rosen of Oakland Ca, 1961 driven by Sam Session, Roger McClusky, Tommy Copp and Dave Stickland. Sold to Karl Hokanson 1970 and driven by Tom Enea, sold to Paul Enea 1974 and driven by son Tom untill 1976 parked. I purchased this car and wanting as many photos and any possable info on it dureing the Mo Goff years, and any suggestions on contacting Karl Hokanson tried everything except a private investigator, last heard he was located in Fresno and getting back into Midget raceing but damn if I can find a phone # for him. I've spoke with every owner except Karl and Mo Goff and as Im told Mo is no longer with us. Car was ran indoors and on dirt has went from v860 to Buick to offy lastly a
    chevy II.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  5. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Here are a few pictures of Rosen's car. On the left is Dee Hileman in 1963 and on the right is Tommy Copp, early sixties.
    I don't know if Hokanson is still alive. I think Tom Enea lived in Pittsburg CA.
    The Goff's owned many cars. If you could be more specific it would help.
     
  6. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    For some reason the photos of Rosen's Offy didn't upload. I will try again.
    Hileman on the left Copp on the right.
     

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  7. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,128

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Regarding the Copp picture, shows that the car owner must have had some bad experiences with push trucks judging from the "bumper car" rollers on the push bars...
    ... but what the heck are the two balls hanging from a chain off the bottom center bumper bar????? I can remember when common fuel trucks had a small chain dragging, supposedly for bleeding off static electricity...
    ...or if they are carburettor air inlet plugs, how the hell did they get back there????
     
  8. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    This photo was taken at an indoor race at the Oakland exposition Bldg. The rollers were used so a cars nerf bar would slide off the rear pusher.
    Tommy Copp was a character, I don't think the balls had anything to do with static electricity!
     
  9. jeffc800
    Joined: Mar 30, 2011
    Posts: 2

    jeffc800
    Member

    My dad was definitely a character. I'm just barley old enough to remember the square wheel (painted) on Sim Clark's Midget.

    BTW, I have seen many photos on this thread of my dad and uncle Dick Deis.

    Jeff
     
  10. VOLVO164
    Joined: Nov 3, 2011
    Posts: 3

    VOLVO164
    Member

    HI to you monkaz/ Re/your article above i some information to the Nagy Offy car no 3.I am Australia Sydney NSW, You can Email at volvo164@bigpond.com Hope to hear from you. Regards Greg.
     
  11. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Jeff,
    Your father and "Dyna" Mike McGreevy were the show indoors!
    You'll notice that the sponsor of Rosen's car is: "Rete Baulsen's Mouse and Eels". It should read "Pete Paulsen's House of Wheels" but Pete didn't come up with the sponsorship money.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  12. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Somebody wanted to see a picture Chuck Lawlor in Lillian Miller's V8-60. The best I could come up with was Dean Holden in Lillian Miller's car 1963.
     

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  13. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    From what Bob Rosen told me Karl just moved to Fresno from Florida and was getting back into midget racing again. This is possably why I cant find any ph# listed for him. I wished I could give more info about the Goff's history with the car all Bob told me was he purchased the car from Mo Goff in 1961. The car has a few unique features like the front 4 bar suspensoin mounts and the rear suspension would have a wierd upper mount for the trailing arm that I would call a Z link because another bracket mounted the rear at the bottom face to the rear. It was switched back & forth to hairpins frequently though, and the brackets are the only visable mark that can seperate from others. I'll be talking with Bob in the future and try to get mor info.
     
  14. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Just got some info that the Goff's purchased the car in 1961 in Portland Oregon or possably Washington and ran it one year with Mike McGreevy driveing, it was a v8 60 car and mostly indoors with a few outdoor shows.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  15. casper
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 975

    casper
    Member

    I have a small midget problem !!! I know there is no cure, but I am trying to get it under control. I can't afford to collect in the big leagues, so I have fun at my own level, with 1/4 midgets and other junk !!
     

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  16. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'Jeff (JeffC800) it is really great to see you on here and an even greater pleasure that you're participating. I was a huge fan of your Dad and he was truly one of the best ever. And just as great of gentleman as was Tommy Copp, was Sim Clark.

    1. Tommy Copp

    2. Tommy Copp and Bob Rosen accepting their trophies as 1964 BCRA Indoor Champion Driver and Car Owner.

    3. Tommy Copp receiving the trophy for winning the trophy dash at the USAC National Championship Midget Race at the San Jose Speedway from promoter, J.C. Agajanian and trophy sponsor, Glen Dennee. Tommy was driving the Jack London Offy.

    4. Tommy Copp in the Sim Clark Ford V8-60, Indoors at Oakland.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Steve Bonesteel
    Joined: Aug 31, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Steve Bonesteel
    Member
    from Clovis, Ca

    Started putting the midget roadster back together this week, some photos.
     

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  18. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'And that's exactly why Porter Goff used them on the front nerf bar of the Easter Egg for Mike McGreevy. But it didn't stop little Mike from flying all over the place!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Jeff
    Hope to stay in touch with you as things progress with Rosen's car Im going to be restoreing, I would like to contact former drivers & or family's as thing progress with this. I purchased the car with no history and no one knew anything about it, just found out last week from a great guy who is the historian for the BCRA and confirmed it this week that it was Rosen's car. I can send you photos I have of it if you would like & of any photos that I have recieved in the past week, Im new on the hamb but its been great to see all the info and contacts that are being made!
     
  20. jeffc800
    Joined: Mar 30, 2011
    Posts: 2

    jeffc800
    Member


    Unfortunately, most of my dad's racing career was over before me my brothers reached 8 years old. So, a lot of his racing history was via his, family and old timers stories, plus sites like this.

    There are few BCRA members around (many in the vintage divisions) have a lot of knowledge on the history off the cars that ran with them. I would suggest contacting some of them for more info for your Restoration.

    Jeff
     
  21. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'OK, Danny (Flubyu), As for Karl Hokanson. I can vouch for what Bob Rosen said; I personally talked to Karl last August and he did just recently move back to Fresno, Ca. from Florida. But as far as getting involved again with the midgets, I'm not so sure.

    I will send you pics of the Karl Hokanson Chevy II car with drivers, Tom Enea, Bob DeJong, Larry Mimms and Gary Howard because they are caged cars.

    And could you please clarify; is the car you have the only car that Rosen owned and ran during the 1960's? Because I know that in the last ten or fifteen years, Bob had restored what I thought was his original car from the 60's; complete with Offy engine, etc. Was that car the ex-Hokanson Chevy II???

    About Bob Rosen: Not only was he was of BCRA's most successful car owners, at the same time he was an incredibly young man for being so successful; thanks to his Guarantee Fork Lift company. When the great Johnny Baldwin drove for Rosen in the 1964 season, Baldwin was clearly 10-12 years older than Rosen!

    Some of these you can add to your collection to go along with the ones that monkaz has posted. And speaking of Dee Hileman; would sure like to know how Dee's doing?

    1. Dee Hileman, Bob Rosen Offy

    2. Dee Hileman (Rosen Offy #2) racing with Dick Atkins (John Pestana-Bobby Lang Offy #98)

    3. Dee Hileman (Moe Goff Offy #1), Gary Koster (Leo Wyrsch Offy #99), Gary Johnson (Norm Britton Offy #96), Dick Atkins (Sim Clark Chevy II #3) Don Meacham (Harry Stryker Offy #2) and Johnny Baldwin (Bob Rosen Offy #4).

    4. Johnny Baldwin (Bob Rosen Offy #4) George Snider (Norm Britton Offy #96) and Tommy Morrow (Carl Rodgers Chevy II #95)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  22. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Great photos & thanks for posting them not only for me but everyone who really digs the old midgets.The car I have is from what Bob told me and cofirmed through other channels is his first midget purchased from Moe Goff after the 1961 season. He had two cars from what I was told purchaseing the second in the late 60's, stories are being told about one indoor car and one outdoor car #30 with a? I cant confirm this and Bob never said this but its just what Im told and we all know how racing stories go. I do have a photo of both cars together on dirt from 1969 that Ill post, Bob sent the poto to me & others of the Chassis to verify the car. He sold the car to Karl in 1970 or after the 1969 season and Karl (without talking to Karl) put the Chevy II in it. In 74 Karl sold the car to Paul Enea and was ran till 1976. Tom said the chassis is a Shilala but still havnt located any # or stampings, Bob said it was a KK copy and all the programs list it as a KK copy. I just call it cool!! Still pretty light headed over this thing as I told many people who in past week I've met because of this thing, Im 36 and bought a no name no history car because I wanted a Old midget since I was a Kid. Im just glad I tried to find history before doing it the way I wanted it.
     
  23. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    1969 San Jose Bob Rosen midgets
     

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  24. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,104

    the shadow
    Member

    looking at the pic's above I wonder if the 'roll bars" on the midgets were installed to meet the sanctioning bodies saftey rules onl and not really for saftey? those bars are lower then their heads how could they help in a roll over! with exception of the one car with the full overhead cage- the smart one.

    paul
     
  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,938

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    As I studied the photos I wondered the same thing.
     
  26. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Well, the car with the cage is Mel Kenyon. His car was the second USAC sanctioned car to have one. Roll bars were intentionally built fairly short as the taller ones folded up when a low grinding roll happened. The belts stretched so much that the driver's head was well above the bar anyway when he flipped.

    This is from the time frame where Grandpa Hartley was grumbling that the cages would make the youngsters way too brave. He was right, but they did keep more of these youngsters alive.

    Doc
     
  27. LittleFauss
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 272

    LittleFauss

    .....'Those are excellent pics. As DocF mentioned, that's Mel Kenyon in the Thermo-King Offy #1 in the front row along side George Snider in the yellow Schweitzer Offy #60 and Richard Walsh in the green Chevy II, outside of row 1. On the inside of row 2 is the winner of the race that day, February 16th, 1969, George Benson in the Olly Johnson Offy #96 along with Burt Foland in the Jack London Offy #4X on the outside of that row. The two Bob Rosen cars are along side each other in the third row. Hank Butcher (with the blue bill on the helmet) and Dave Strickland (red scarf) outside of Hank.

    Later that year, Benson went down and also won the Thanksgiving Turkey Night Grand Prix at Ascot Park.
     
  28. Flubyu
    Joined: Nov 15, 2011
    Posts: 66

    Flubyu
    Member

    Amen Doc, the quote I always heard from my grey haired friends is "we didnt know any better"! In any form of racing no matter how safe and or how slow the intended machine is, accidents happen and somethings are unavoidable. With every mistake thiers discovery true as now as was then. As a youngster and being around racing I know how much easier and safer the cars are of today, look at the photos a grey haired friend of mine always says drivers use to look like gorrillas with huge arms because you had to be. Now a 14 year old driving 410 sprint or midgets is the norm. Im not knocking anyone who have the means to drive racecars in todays forms of racing, but I do look at the photos in this and other post and know how special the drives were to be able to do the things they did with what they had available at the time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,938

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    That's why I am going to be using 1 3/4 x .134 wall DOM tubing on mine.
    [​IMG]
     
  30. monkaz
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 203

    monkaz
    Member
    from gilbert,AZ

    Not all of the drivers from the 1950s were muscle bound "Gorillas", as this picture of 1957 USAC Eastern Sprint Car Champion, Bill Randall clearly shows.
     

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