VIN, titles, etc

For those of you that have done frame swaps (like an S-10 under an AD Chevy, etc), have you ever registered and titled it by the frame? For example, lets say you have a 51 Chevy, you put it on an 87 chassis. Let's say you don't have a title for the cab/body, but you do for the chassis. Is it legal? And what about the fact that the VIN doesn't match on the cab?

 

One could get a special contruction title but I would be worried about being required to comply with current DOT regulations. I am probably wrong but that is what would worry me about it.

 

Nope Beano,,you ain't wrong,Compliance to certain YOM regulations is defiantly a concern . HRP

 

I agree with both of you, but just for the sake of this dilemma, let's say the vehicle complies to all 1987 regulations.

 

Unless your state has the reproduction street rod/custom title deal. And that doesn't seem to be working out in some states.

 

Talking to the Iowa D.O.T. Inspector who looked at my project stated that Iowa considers the frame VIN number as the car. In my case neither the frame [ homebuilt ] nor the body [ homebuilt from a 28/29 Ford cowl ] had a Vin number so I have to get licensed under a different set of rules where they generate the VIN number. If both the body and the frame have a VIN number then the it is licensed by the frame ,which probably mean a different set of safty standards. Trouble is that every stste probably differs.

 

Tye SEMA site has title regulation by state in PDF form on their site and they keep it uodated. it is a good place to look for information. Maybe I should say that it is a good starting place.

 

X2 on the SEMA site. It's a great starting point if you don't feel like contacting your local DMV. Rules and regulations vary greatly from state to state.

 

Here's the way my N.C. Assigned VIN process turned out:
The only part I used that had a serial number was the engine. The Inspector verified the block number matched the VIN of the vehicle I got it out of.That was sufficient to initiate a VIN Assignment procedure. I had to have the car appraised by a licensed car dealer and a take out 3-year bond for 1 1/2 times the appraisal. Once I supplied that to NCDMV they came out and applied 2 stickers to the BODY !!!The frame made no difference to them !! Technically , I can take my body off and bolt it on any frame I choose ( custom,S-10,Mercedes, John Deere lawnmower, etc)
The good part is it's now titled as a '26 Ford Roadster, and according to NCDMV , being over 35 years old it's not subject to any State inspection..emission or safety!!
Still waiting for some cop to argue the no-seatbelt thingy at a license check!!

 

I've seen it done here in South Carolina,,not your combination but a 48 Ford sedan on a late 70's Buick frame,,using the serial/vin number it was titled as a late 70's Buick.

This was back in the late 70's when the Buick was a new and was a roll over low mileage car,,If you didn't know about all the fabrication and work you would never know.

He had the car for sale in Street Scene and had it sold,when the buyer ask about the title,,it turned into a no sale!

Had a guy interested in it at the swap meet in Charlotte,,title time,,,no sale.

He finally sold to a guy up north at a loss. HRP

 

A word to the wise make sure you know your states laws before you go in to get it titled. No worst words out of a DMV clerks mouth than "you can't do that" I do remember a Model A coupe that was registered as a 67ish Ford. It was a reconstruction with an issued VIN number. For us it can be a nightmare... it must follow all the laws for the year on the title....seat belts, smog equipment , etc, etc. An antique is exempt.

 

Sometimes it seems that North America is comprised of 51 countries !!

 

51...or MORE!! Sometimes it depends on what side of the bed the DMV clerk got up on that morning. I've seen things denied in one county only to drive 30 miles and have them pass with flying colors in the next county over, in the same state. Knowing the laws of your state is a tremendous advantage, especially when you hear the clerk say "you can't do that" and you know you can.

 

actually 57 states if you listen to a certain idiot!

-danny

 

Resale isn't really a fear, but what I'm most concerned about is getting pulled over (I'm a cop magnet) and some cop looking for the vin on the cowl and it's either not there or it's different. Since the look of the vehicle won't match the one it's titled as, I wonder how that would play out.

 

I'd think the best route would be to title then register the 51 as a 51.
Then "build" the car-place the body on the 87 chassis.

Once you're on the road, it's titled and regulated (no smog) as a 51 and as HR Primer mentioned; no problems with a future resale.
Keep a photocopy of the 87 title in the car just in case a cop gets real detailed on a road inspection and inquires about "where did you get the late model chassis"? If you get pulled over, the call in will come back as the plates registered to an 87 and it'll start with "out of the car".

I'd assume this is how the 49-51 Merc guys handle the late model GM, etc chassis swap situation???

 

Go here and pick your state....
http://www.bipac.net/page.asp?content=tag_title_toolbox&g=SEMAGA

in Texas for example....if you did the frame swap to an 87 before getting it titled...the completed car would have to comply with 87 emissions standards according to what I just read for my state.

 

In Missouri, they will title it as what it looks like.

 

Cops verified two vins for me last year, they looked at the vin tag not the frame. Does every old car even have a vin on the frame?

 

It probably will have to reflect [appear] the year of vehicle it appears to be to an officer when he stops it or you would be in violation of your state laws-that is the norm I believe....
Otherwise you will be inviting an official inspection at headquarters when you are stopped.

 

every old car has a serial number on the frame....not a VIN. Sometimes they are hard to find or read...but they are there. If they look on the body and find one and it matches the paperwork...they don't look anywhere else from my experience.

 

Best advise I can give: do your homework on the subject of titling you vehicle in your state before you ever start on the project or start looking for a project.

We have had a big hassle in this state (Washington) over home made frames that guys welded up in their own garage. Unless things have changed again you either have to be a certified welder, have the welds inspected and passed by a certified welder or have it welded by a certified welder. Due according to the inspector who has inspected several of my vehicles to the simple fact that a lot of guys who can't weld for shit decide that they can build their own frame and there have been some that have come apart while driving down the road. We can buy a frame from a shop that builds frames and with the paperwork from them get it through though.

Every one of my projects has a build book for it. Just a cheap 3 ring binder with page savers to keep the receipts, notes and a few photos.

One has a copy of the title for the vehicle that donated the engine, trans and rear end plus the weight slip from the scrap yard that I hauled the hulk to after I had pulled all of the good pieces off it. It doesn't have every receipt for every nut and bolt but there is a receipt or documentation for every major component on the car. No issues of where did this part come from. One reason for that is that the county live in has a very high auto theft rate and there are a lot of little rebuild shops around who may not care exactly where their parts came from as long as they were cheap.

If you are worried about your wife finding out how much you spent on the project quit worrying as she pretty well knows if you haven't gone on a real vacation for the past five years, you never have money for new stuff for the house and you are wearing the same shirt and jeans you wore three years ago. Plus she knows that what ever was in those boxes that the brown truck keeps bringing wasn't free.

 

Mine handles the check book and doesn't care how much I spend.

I scratch built a late model Harley for a guy a few years back and we kept a build book. Everything that did not have sales tax paid had to be paid when he went to title it. Everything had to have a point of origin that could be verified. When we went to start the title process before we ever took the bike for inspection he took the build book and got an estimate of sale taxes. When we went for inspection with the state patrol he had all his ducks in a row. Got inspected registered and tagged in half a day. the new original title eas there in 10 days just like they said it would be.

The key to any of that sort of thing is to be prepared and look like you have some idea what you are doing.

 

My recently sold '46 Ford Business Coupe sat on a S10 chassis and had a small block Olds engine. The body came out of a wrecking yard that had already surrendered the title, the S10 frame had no numbers so it was titled by the v.i.n. number from the donor car that the engine came out of. In Arkansas, the body is the 1st choice for v.i.n., then chassis/frame and finally motor. It was registered as a 1946 Ford Business Coupe with a 17 digit v.i.n., I also had a tag made up with the v.i.n. and rivited it to the door post. Everybody was happy...

 

Riveted to the door post.....
some things are better than other...
aluminum pop rivets are probably at the bottom of the list....
can anyone suggest something "better looking" ?

 

I think I'm going to have to do some research. My biggest concern is the vin in the window not matching, or not being there at all.

 

I use the drive rivits that Ford used on their cars from the '50s. You can't get them out without making a mess of the data plate unless you can get to the back side of the place the plate is mounted. I recently bought a new plate for one of my trucks because the old one is severely damaged. I plan on using the same style retainers that Chevy used on the truck originally. I will also keep the old plate with the pickup in case of questions.

 

There is no "VIN" and it wouldn't be in the window in 51 anyway.

 

Around here, factory Chevys from the 50's were registered by engine numbers. Fords by the frame numbers, which are the same as the numbers on the ID plate. My 56 Ford pickups came from the factory with the ID plate attached between the drivers side door hinges with 4 self tapping phillips head screws.
Kinda complicates things.

 

I use blind steel rivets, they go in the same as a pop rivet with a pop rivet gun but they look like an old rivet. You can find them at an Ace hardware.