If it was my car and I bought it as numbers macthing the first thing i would do is see if the engine/trans # match the hidden vin and if they do aply for a title with that vin fallowing your states laws if they match the 4 door plate I would seek leegle action on the seller.
Legal “ action” against a scumbag is point less and cost more money. Lean from this and get your car registered and tagged the best way you can. Like my old mechanic friend used to say “ sometime will get it”, find that something. Bones
I lived in SC for about 10 years, in the Greenville area. There's a little sawed off fat ass shitbag around the Simpsonville Fountain Inn area who made a living for years by illegally selling titles. Called himself a "classic car dealer" but title sales was his real gig. Of course this was illegal as hell, yet I'd see his ads all over the place openly advertising "replacement titles" as if it was as legal as selling hot dogs and cokes. There's no telling how many cars are floating around SC with these same title problems related to this one dirtball alone.
1979 i bough a 50 olds fastback from a friend, got title and tag, drove it for bout 5 yrs then sold it to guy, he caled said vin didn't match car, i called my friend, he had bought it from his uncle who bought it new. uncle said in 1950 he had bought a 4 door delux model and after driving it about a week, it was too big a car so he took it back to the dealer and the dealer just swapped him the fastback for the 4dr, never swapped titles. had wrong title for 33 yrs,just had to get some paper to correct it
Last December I bought the car in my Avatar from another state, when the car was delivered it had an L on the title and a 1 on the vin. Car was rebuilt in 2012 and driven since. It took about 2 months with the help of the previous owner to get it right. I also have used a title service company to obtain a bonded title on a 1930 ford. That took about 1 year and a bunch of money, but I didn't want an as built title.
Just wonder about all the older vehicles that were titled by the engine ID number on the titles, and now the original engine is long gone?
If you have a title that references a number that is not affixed to the vehicle, the chain-of-ownership has been broken. You have no legal proof that you own the vehicle. You have a fancy piece of decorative paper. The proper legal procedure would have been to have the car re-titled to the body or frame number, at the time of engine removal, but hot rodders are rebels, and like to take the risk of losing their cars. In California, you would need to locate the affixed number(s), ensure that they are not in-use, or marked as stolen. Then, you would need to apply for a bonded title. For vehicles under $5000, that's $100 (one-time-charge). Above $5k, the price rises with value. After having the extant numbers verified by a qualified professional, and filling out a bunch of paperwork for the DMV, you will receive a bonded title. The bond period is three years. After the bond period is up, and nobody has disputed your ownership, you can get a regular title. You can still sell the vehicle, but the bonded brand stays on the title for the three-year period. Now, if you are in the unlucky position of having affixed numbers that are on the hot sheet, you have a stolen car, in the eyes of the law. This is why it pays to follow the laws, and do ALL of the paperwork. Doing otherwise can get ugly, in a hurry.
Gimpy, You are frequently not the bearer of good news or what the people want to hear but I would like to thank you for the time and energy you spend to help keep people on the right path and out of trouble. Charlie Stephens
The truth is hard to bear sometimes..... But some people in different places seem to think otherwise...... I agree with you Charlie hands down.
I hope that folks here do not get the wrong idea about me. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. On the contrary, I am trying to keep our pass-time alive. The more that we "car people" (and that is all of us, tuners, Euro car enthusiasts, restorers, etc., lawmakers don't see distinctions like we do) show up on the radar of law enforcement, on the news (for bad reasons), or in the hospital (or worse), the higher the likelihood that heavy-handed actions will be taken against us. I can see a day when internal combustion engines are the minority of vehicles, where fuel is too expensive to purchase, and where insurance companies will no longer write us policies. I mean, I am an engineer at a major automaker, where we are producing all electric, self-driving vehicles. They are not a fantasy. I rode home in one on Friday. NO FREAKIN' DRIVER! For real, and in San Francisco traffic, too! I am hoping that the day that we are outlawed is long after we have all passed, and I am doing my best to see to it that nobody accelerates the arrival of that date. I will do whatever it takes. I will help you with your paperwork. I will do your inspections. I will help you with design and engineering. I will weld for you, if you need me to. I will even send you spare parts, if I have them, and you need them. Take my help, if you need it, even if you cannot pay. It will benefit all of us that you do not go about things the wrong way.
Guys unless you all like howling at the moon, you would be better served to give it a rest. I imagine that the OP was told by his cousin, a judge to pay virtually no attention whatsoever to what is “proclaimed” on a forum. As an attorney since 1976, I have handled several cases that deal with imperfect automotive title issues, including one case that wound on for years with a 6 figure collector car. From what I have read the OP has done nothing wrong and as soon as he found out there was a problem he contacted the seller and his cousin for legal “advice”. Title issues need to be litigated often and there are not only statutes that control but also unbeknownst to most non lawyers there are two sides to a state court of general jurisdiction and that is the law side and the equitable side (sometimes the value of the car comes into play but for the sake of brevity let’s say it is not an issue here). The equitable side does not follow as hard and fast rules but kind of goody goody type rules that have an effect when wrongdoers are involved. With title issues there are times when title is “imperfect” and the law side recognizes it but when the judge puts on his equitable hat they do what they can oftentimes to not reward the wrongdoer. There are principles like a bona fide purchaser for value and similar concepts codified in law (by statute or case law) in some jurisdictions that would side with one with imperfect title rather that to reward a wrongdoer. The statutes that may come into play with title issues can sometimes be straight forward and other times complex and are not easily dealt with on a discussion forum. I have not researched the applicable law but after reading what the OP has posted I believe the situation so far does not look bad. The state most likely gives some credence to SLED agents so his conclusions may hold some sway. If I was to give any advice it would be when he goes to the local DMV to state the facts and ask what he need to do and specifically state that he wants to avoid hiring a lawyer but state he is willing to hire one if there is any problems whatsoever with the DMV in straightening this out without a lawyer. If it sounds like there would be obvious problems he may want to give his cousin another call. If there is any talk of confiscation of the auto then I would seek out a local attorney. Also keep track with good records of all of your out of pocket expenses when and if you have to file even a small claims action against the seller. It cannot be stressed enough that judges like good written records and note taking. I always suggest when a note is important that it is wise to and date and sign it, more to help with admissibility of that item in court later on. Hopefully the OP will follow up so that others with similar issues will know the “proper” way to handle it in the future and I wish him good luck.
Once again, Loundbang is absolutely correct. This is far from over and I feel compelled to add that theft is NOT the only issue here. VIN fraud and misrepresentation is rampant in the classic car industry these days and is taken very seriously by law enforcement in most states. Several years ago a man in NJ sold a 1970 Hemi Cuda for nearly half a million dollars. The buyer began to research the car and it was discovered that the car in question was built at the factory with a garden variety 318...not Hemi. The VIN had been changed to represent a Hemi car's "R" code. Original Hemi cars command stupid money these days what the seller did in this case was a serious case of fraud. The car was seized, the seller was sent to prison and the car wound up being destroyed. IMHO, there is little difference between the Hemi car and your Nova (aside from a few hundred thousand dollars) this is a case of fraud at worst, and misrepresentation at best. If the person who sold it to you was ignorant, that means someone else in the previous ownership chain is guilty of VIN tampering. If you dummy up a plate and have it mounted to your Nova, then YOU become guilty of the same. I dragged home a 1964 Chrysler 300 several years ago. The VIN matched, but the inspector still threatened to have my car seized and destroyed. All Chrysler VIN tags are mounted to the outer R/H corner of the dash, where it meets the windshield. All...except for model year 1964, I discovered. In the case of my car, Chrysler drilled the holes for rivets on the driver's piller, then spot welded it. They used a bonding agent to temporarily put it in place before spot welding at top & bottom. It was only after my inspector got in touch with a Chrysler VIN expert that he learned this hack job was indeed factory and He then passed my car. My point is, as stated above, your car has already been misrepresented, whether it was originally a 4 door that was converted to a 2 door, or an original 2 door that had it's VIN tag swapped for whatever reason. If it were my car, I would ask your local authorities to straighten out the VIN mess and have them mount whatever tag needs to be mounted to the car (I can confirm that whatever VIN they issue will NOT be original, and it will NOT be on an original tag.) It doesn't matter that your Nova is not a big dollar hemi car, or an original SS. When and if you sell the car, disclosure is an imperative. If not, you will be considered a fraudster as well.
You are 100% correct. I recently bought a junky 1955 F-100 pickup that the owner lost the title. Lots of people told me to just "find a junker and use that paperwork". If you swapped frames you could, because the only Vin is on the frame and the VIN tag screws to the glove box door. But that just didn't sit right with me. I did not want to be driving around town and some guy claims I had his truck. In WA. State you must first send a form to the state capital records holding to get the address of the last registered owner. Then you must send a certified letter explaining you purchased a car last registered to them. If they open it, I guess you work it out with them. If not, and it comes back un-opened, you can then have the WA State patrol inspect it. After it inspects "clean", meaning not stolen, you register it and wait 3 years. After 3 years, if no one claims it as their property (and has proof), you get a title free and clear. In my case, my junky truck had been out of the system so long our state capital had no previous owner on it (last licensed 1999), so I got to skip the certified letter steps. Wa State Patrol affixed a Wa State Tag in the door jam but it is still the original VIN. So, I am doing the long road, but at least once done it will be legally mine.
Perry (and others that have an interest which are many I would suppose) to say that fraud is rampant in the collector car world is akin to saying that there are many grains of sand on the beach. Let’s not forget we are on a forum where it is totally appropriate to take a 29 Model A and put 32 rails under it, with a SBC, an AOD trans, a Ford 9”, with a different hood interior,, wheels etc etc and use the 29 title you got with the car and call it a 29 with no qualms whatsoever. Is that a misrepresentation?-plain and simple-yes or no? I can assure you I could find statutes and case law that may throw some cold water on such practices but it has become an accepted practice in some instances and so it is not “officially” fraud. Look what happened to Boyd with titles that had become commonplace. I know personally guys that bought titles in much the same way to “clean” their car. I have had guys ask me to help them clean their titles which I avoid like the plague. The term “fraud” has taken on a convenient meaning and many believe it only applies to others. Is it fraud when you misrepresent the actual truth in regards to the cars you have sold (without all of the weasel clauses you want to attach to the answer)? My reason for my earlier post was that I assumed the Nova was an assembled car and the OP did not seem overly upset but wanted to just straighten it out. I do not believe he is going to be one in the chain of misrepresenting this car but just wants to get it straightened out. Some of the posts though seemed to be misrepresenting reality IMO. I have not researched the applicable law in South Carolina but I do not believe his title is worthless paper nor do I believe his claim to the car being his is not without merit. If the law was that simple all we would need are some posters on a forum and attorneys could save billing the client for all of the days in court simply because some posters inform us of the black letter law. That simple? I think not. I would bet that I could put forth strong arguments in a court of law that hundreds if not thousands of cars owned by HAMBERS are fraudulent under the law, under one theory or another. I laugh at how people constantly try and tell me how there is a misrepresentation in their situation but is not fraudulent. Much of the time my only response is “If you say so”. I figure let’s see what happens to the OP and it may be a new VIN but if he is happy in the end (or relatively so) then so be it.
One little matter that has been lightly touched on here is the eventual resale of the vehicle. He might get totally blessed by the State of South Carolina. The next buyer of this car could very likely be from another state.....whose laws on titles vary even just a little. The whole problem can resurface for the next owner. Getting it properly squared away now with a proper title and VIN tag issued by the state DMV is the only way to assure transferability of the car to the next owner in another state.
I realize that this forum is populated with builders of all types, who build cars from all periods. Perhaps I may have been stating the obvious as regards VIN tampering, but that does not make what I stated regarding the OP's dilemma untrue. Yes, countless cars have been cobbled together from bits and pieces of other cars. The rules however...that apply to a cobbled together 1929 Ford, do not necessarily translate to Chevrolet Nova. The VIN system that our nation uses wasn't standardized until 1954. From that period forward, all US made vehicle ID numbers have been controlled under this nation's vehicle laws. Yes...the question can be asked...if you replace enough of a car so that none of it's original factory issued pieces remain...is it the same car? If you have an axe...and replace the head...and at some point later you have to replace the handle as well...is it still the same axe? In the eyes of the Government, the answer to that question is typically yes...but if at any point a part is removed or replaced that has a VIN tag attached to it, it becomes a dangerous game. In some states (Pennsylvania, for instance) it is a Felony to take possession of any part of a car from which the VIN or ID tag has been removed. Period. I will say again, here for the record that Nevada threatened to seize my survivor 1964 Chrysler 300 and destroy it, before being educated on the subject by a source that THEY themselves contacted. I found the car in N. California, dragged it home, and went through a 2 month process trying to get it passed DMV vehicle inspection. At one point, I had half the interior laying on the asphalt at the inspection station so they could find the numbers that they were looking for. There are rules in place for franken-cars and that was essentially the point of my post: You cannot arbitrarily have a VIN tag made for your car and then try to have it passed. The cat...such as they say...is out of the bag in the OP's case. It's not rocket science, but it is law. I personally would bring the car to the local DMV and ask for their help in sorting it out. I'm adding the following just as food for thought. This is just one small paragraph in the huge volume concerning US VIN laws: "Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 2321 whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, could be fined or imprisoned for up to ten years. C.S.A. § 7703 A person who alters, counterfeits, defaces, destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates or removes a vehicle identification number with the intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity or prevent the identification of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part commits a felony of the third degree and, upon conviction, shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than seven years or a fine of not more than $50,000, or both"
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