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Hot Rods Vin # Does not match car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 66L-79, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,376

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I know a man who bought a newer truck for $11,000. It was advertised in a local trading post but the guy lived in Minneapolis, 80 miles away. He took the truck in to have the brakes replaced. When they ordered parts using the VIN number, the parts were wrong. They were for a 2 wheel drive and the vehicle was a 4 wheel drive. The owner had the State Patrol check it. They found the VIN on the frame and it was stolen. They impounded the truck and it took the owner over a year to get any money back and he only got part of it. The seller had sold several other vehicles that turned out to have been stolen and altered. He bought cheap vehicles at auctions to get titles and VIN tags. He advertised the vehicles in publications farther away to avoid the people it was stolen from finding it.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 4,521

    wvenfield
    Member

    Converting a 66 Nova 4 door into a 2 door is no more difficult than converting a 55 Chevy. So.......what does the title say? If it is the same the problem is likely a civil one, not a legal one. Some important information was not divulged.
     
  3. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,872

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    The Nova in question is a 2 dr hardtop, you do know all Nova four doors are sedans right.
    I've seen hardtops turned into convertibles and four door wagons turned into 2 dr wagons and sedan deliveries, I can't imagine how many cars (or work) it would take to turn a 4 dr sedan into a 2 dr hardtop.
    I think it would be easier to turn a 55 Chevy into a 55 Ford, not that anyone would want to.
     
    metlmunchr likes this.
  4. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 4,521

    wvenfield
    Member

    The Nova guys seem to feel as people here do about converting 55 Chevy 4 doors into 2 doors.

    I've done two hardtop 2 dr conversions.One was a 4dr and the other was a 2dr post.It's not a real hard swap but you will need a hardtop doner car. They are out there because the roof is usually good but the rest of the car is toast. Wheelbase is all the same as well as the rocker panels.You will need hardtop doors and quarter panels. Actually I'm looking to do this conversion because I have 2 hardtop doner cars. You may ask why would you do this ? Its simple, 2 dr hardtop cars in even so-so condition are priced out of this world! When I do the next on I will document it here on the Bullet.

    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13173015

    I have NO idea if this was the case here. I saw it as a possibility which is why I asked if the title matched the VIN. No answer yet.
     
  5. ffr1222k
    Joined: Nov 5, 2009
    Posts: 918

    ffr1222k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a body man that used to clip cars for me. It cost $2000 to cut two cars at the A pillar and across the floor. It took him about 2 days for clipping the car.

    These were OT Unibody cars
     
  6. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 4,521

    wvenfield
    Member

    Used to have it done to VW's. (80's Rabbit's)
     
    milo1303s likes this.
  7. 66L-79
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 337

    66L-79
    Member

    Well here is a update on this Sled Agent ( AKA works for the State of South Carolina DMV / Police / Special Motor Vehicle etc. ) came out to my shop this morning and checked the hidden vin # stamped into the flange on the cowl of the car, fortunately the car came back as NOT stolen. This search is done through a Nation Wide Insurance Data Base to which he says if there had ever been a report of the car stolen it would have been in this Insurance Data Base he searched. The reason for the vin plate missing and a different one on the car now no one knows, possibility's removed for painting ( lost ) ?? After he done his search and nothing came back on the hidden vin numbers he act like there was no big deal to the wrong vin plate being on the car. As far as having recourse on the seller I think it is a real long shot in the dark now. So my next move and it is a legal move is to get the original hidden vin number plate back on the car, which is going to cost probably $300 to $500 more into the car. The GOOD (not stolen) and this is all original sheet metal car original motor and trans with what is supposed to be a 55700 mile car. Thanks for everyone's input and I know different states have different laws etc.
     
    Fordor Ron, slim38, dan31 and 2 others like this.
  8. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,872

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I've viewed The Bullet a few times over the years, definitely a different crowd, not to my liking so I probably won't see it.
    I have a 67, shame it can't be part of the HAMB.


    That's great news.
    BTW, is this car in question your avatar (name)?
    Or do you have another documented L79, ? Nova?
     
  9. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,433

    frank spittle
    Member

    As time passes and cars change ownership more frequently this problem will get much, much worse. Many of these vehicles were worth only a few hundred dollars when the hanky panky was done so no one looked to see if the vin matched the title. It didn't matter if the convertible you bought wasn't born one as long as you could transfer the title and start cruising. Back then the DMV didn't check in most states unless they were brought into a transaction for some reason. Heck, many states didn't issue titles. A bill of sale was all that was needed to buy a license plate. None of the cars we cherish were worth the tens of thousands (or more) they are today. That is not the case anymore and that is why you will not be allowed to consign your car to any bonded auto auction unless your title matches the vin. Establishing legal ownership of the consignor with proper matching documents is priority one and keeps the auction out of any legal problems in most cases.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  10. With the thread re-read, over and over......... Q's for the responders, as the OP= Car # does NOT MATCH the paperwork- Yes? Do we have the wrong car, or Do we have the wrong paperwork?
    Has the factory stamping # been changed/altered/a different section welded in? Tag present?
    Just for those= this is NOT a full frame car, and has NO frame stamping.
    Is it possible= the car is legit, and the paperwork is from ANOTHER 66 NOVA?
    If the car itself is unaltered, a simple body /vin check would be in order to verify it's current status.
    If the car is legit, then false paperwork is at hand. If the car appears to the slightest touch to be tampered with, then it's the car....... Not all states identify a 2dr/4dr/vert/wagon....... Just a 1966 Nova........
    If everything jives in an unaltered state, then a simple call/ trip to the local DMV would verify the car's status- when/where, and activity in the system. And a VIN verifier, or local DMV must check. Applying for a new title is just a bunch of paperwork. But the car must be solid, and not have any flags attached to it.....
    Inquiring minds want to know......... EDIT= TOO LATE....... Cool Deal!
     
  11. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 14,439

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Glad it's over.....
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  12. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 506

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    66l, Glad the answers you need are fourth coming hope everything turns out well. Larry
     
  13. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 152

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    see post 12: title matches incorrect vin plate and does not mat
    Post #12:
    Title matches wrong vin# does not match the vin# stamped into the cowl
     
  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 22,837

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool beans. and it probably means that someone did exactly as your or the inspector's line of thinking goes. pulled the plate for paint or body work and lost it or had more than one similar Nova in the shop and swapped plates. I'd say that this is where no plate and the notes from the inspector saying that he did inspect it and the rest jived is what works. No plate and a pair of empty holes being better than the wrong plate. Up through the 70's at least no one gave much thought to if or why the vin plate had been removed during paint and body work but it is a real issue now. When I move Back from Texas to Washington and the WSP inspector inspected my 48 he had to scrape about six layers of paint off the door post tag to see the numbers stamped in the tag. I was all proud of my Texas engine change title with proper door tag number and he says no big deal .
     
  15. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 12,018

    loudbang
    Member

    Even though the hidden Vin comes back as not stolen your troubles are far from over. Law enforcement IS OBLIGATED to use the hidden vin as the true vin. The ONLY organizations that can legally affix a vin are the vehicles manufacturer and or State motor vehicle enforcement personnel, be they MVD or in some states Law enforcement, PERIOD. And it MUST be affixed with the proper hardware or state approved methods.

    ANYONE else that affixes a vin is in violation of federal law.

    I know people are jumping up and down in the back of the room ready to tell their stories of how they did this or that and it works but THEY ARE STILL IN VIOLATION.

    The officer in this case was remiss in his duties. What you have is a vehicle with an incorrect vin attached and that is a violation on it's face no further evidence needed. I would suggest he contact NATB (national automobile theft bureau) for further checks before you invest one more dime in this project.

    And no the state authorities CAN NOT make a new vin to match the hidden one and affix it to your vehicle. They may maybe get away with affixing a NEWLY issued state vin only.

    Good luck and count your blessings that the vehicle was not impounded as it could have been and would have been in most states.
     
  16. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,872

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I'm thinking some guy buys an L79 Nova back in the day and he gets an insurance quote he can't spring for so grabs a tag off a wrecked 4 door and produces it to another insurance agent with some cockamami story.
    In six months he saves enough money for some American mags, a set of headers and some Traction Masters.
     
  17. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,443

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    I agree with Loudbang and Invisible kid. Just because the hidden VIN is not coming back as stolen, doesn't mean the car is legally yours. You don't hold an ownership title to the car you hold.
    Per your post #12, the title you hold doesn't match the car's (hidden cowl) VIN.
    To Invisiblekid's point, you seem to hold a title to a different Nova than the one in your possession. It could simply be "out of the system". It may have been legally sold at one time, gone through a couple of owners who never transferred title or lost the title. Fast forward, and someone decided it was easier to pop the VIN plate off his parted out/wrecked/junked 4 door and register it with that clean title (illegal).

    You have a Nova with no title, and a Nova title with no car.
     
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  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,589

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    And, don't forget, a title is a revokable document.

    If there is a future issue, you can still lose the car, if you do not fix this exactly within the law.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,490

    ems customer service
    Member

    when the cops and dmv get involved everybody loses, probably your car will be impounded, pending a multi year investigation until your bank account is empty then the car gets crushed
     
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  20. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    29moonshine
    Member

    i agree
     
    INVISIBLEKID and loudbang like this.
  21. Well if the cop checked and the car wasn't stolen. Can't he just apply for a lost title replacement?
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,589

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    And when they don't, you are breaking the law.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  23. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 3,899

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Loudbang is correct above. If it were mine I would be starting the process to have the state issue a new “Corrected” VIN on the car and then I would go after the seller for a diminished value settle meant or at least have them cover the expense of the new VIN and corrected title. In Illinois it would likely be some type of bonded title with re issued VIN. But States vary on stuff like this. I can’t beleive they would want to leave that wrong VIN plate on there. BTW I love those L79 cars.
     
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  24. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 7,308

    manyolcars

    I've had several with numbers that didnt match the title. I showed the State Police and said, 'typo' and got a corrected title. no problem. Quick, easy, free
     
  25. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,350

    noboD
    Member

    Loudbang is 100% right in what he said. In Pa. a lost/ duplicate title goes to the last legal owner. I had one mailed to me for a Corvette I had sold several years before. Someone was trying to get out of paying taxes and applied for a lost/duplicate title and I received it as last legal owner. They eventually found me and I made a few more bucks on the deal.
     
  26. When I drove a tow truck for a living, I was approached with shady deals all the time. One guy was re-tagging stolen cars with tags from wrecks. I probably did transport a questionable car or two before I realized what he was up to. He wound up in prison for something else with a long sentence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    loudbang and gimpyshotrods like this.
  27. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 7,226

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My thoughts? forget all these so called experts who don't even live in SC have typed, get a GOOD lawyer and follow his advice. What works in one state may not suffice in another, or it may be more than you need to do.
     
  28. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,001

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    Every time I read this ( or this type thread) I'm amazed at how many are scared to contact the DMV or get the law involved. Every dealing I've had with them thru the years has been straight up. OP is doing things right. He's got representation, talked to the State and working thru it.

    SPark
     
  29. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 950

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Maybe it wasn't reported stolen. What if someone died and the neighbor stole the car before the out of town relatives showed up and didn't know about the car.
     
    46international and loudbang like this.
  30. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    29moonshine
    Member

    just checked with fl hwy patrol vehicle fraud here in fl = he owns a 4 dr car that does not exist and has a 2dr car with no vin tag. or title
     
    1946caddy and loudbang like this.

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