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Featured Hot Rods Vin # Does not match car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 66L-79, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,085

    29moonshine
    Member

    if it is a 66 nova there is a vin # stamped on the cowl behind the mud flap on the left side of the fire wall that matches the car. you have to pull the fender to see it
     
    bobwop likes this.
  2. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 828

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    If the 4 dr vin number matches the title, it should show your car as a 4 dr, correct. Unless they changed the title to show 2 dr.
     
  3. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 828

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    As far as a legal liability, you have done nothing wrong to this point. It's your duty to notify the officials once you suspect there is a problem with the VIN. If you try and sell the car back to who you bought it from, you could be charged with knowingly selling or dealing with a car with a altered Vin.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 407

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Every state has different laws. I have a friend here in Muskogee, that buys wrecks and mixes and matches late model trucks, I bought my truck from him. He is legal, buys from insurance company auctions. When he finishes a truck our Tag offices issues him a “rebuilt” title. Never any problem. Have had my truck for 13 years. But like I said every state has different laws and every situation is different. You first need to find out if anything is stolen, that can be tricky. If your inquiry comes back stolen ,the cops will get involved. If not you might have a chance to fix you problem. Bones
     
  5. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,702

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Exactly. It doesn't matter if it's a 4 door made into a 2 door, a truck made into a station wagon, whatever. If the VIN tag does not match the body vin numbers it is a no go. It has a tampered with VIN plate. My hi-way patrol guy looked at the VIN tag on my 55 chevy and said...(after he found it lol) you better get some screws in that tag. I said why? Cause that looks tampered with. I said that's the way GM did it! LOL. Goofballs.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  6. johnold1938
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Posts: 272

    johnold1938
    Member
    from indiana

    maybe the frame was crashed and they found a donor car frame from the junk yard is that possible?
     
  7. uncle buck
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,243

    uncle buck
    Member

    Nowhere have I read what kind of car it is other than a 2 door coupe with s 4 door vin tag. What kind of car is it?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  8. 66L-79
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 335

    66L-79
    Member

    1966 Nova 2 door Hardtop
     
    loudbang and bobwop like this.
  9. 66L-79
    Joined: Mar 4, 2008
    Posts: 335

    66L-79
    Member

    1966 Nova 2 door Hardtop
     
  10. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 441

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    I have been doing body work and paint on countless numbers of vintage cars and trucks over the last 40 years and know many where built from combinations of various parts cars , southern or western rust free cabs , boxes and body tubs. If the owners did not go through the process of getting the vehicals inspected and re tag as reconstructed you would end up with a situation like this. And I am willing to bet 99% did not. Some where along the line someone took a titled 4dr and 2 door tub and created this legal nightmare. I have been through the processes at the dmv to get projects legally titled. It is costly and a drawn out pain in the butt. But it is legally sellable anywhere. Also here in Wi you would end up with a new Wi vin and the title would be branded so to speak as a reconstructed unit. God only knows when the OPs car was originally altered. His seller may very well have not known either. How many of you buy cars and decode the vin and check for secondary vins? I take the title and check the vin , if they match I would probley not give it a second thought. Larry
     
  11. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 407

    Boneyard51
    Member


    I did before I bought the car in my avatar. Bones
     
  12. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,042

    greybeard360
    Member

    In Texas, you can take 2 or more cars with legitimate titles and build one car with all of the parts. After DMV inspects everything, they merge the vin's and issue a title and number plate for that car. A search of any vin's involved will point to the new Vin.
     
  13. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,402

    frank spittle
    Member

    This happens more often than you think. NEVER PAY FOR A VEHICLE WITHOUT MATCHING THE TITLE WITH THE VIN. NEVER. IF YOU CAN'T FIND THE VIN OR IT DOES NOT MATCH LEAVE WITHOUT IT. IT IS A NIGHTMARE TO CORRECT. (IF IT CAN BE CORRECTED).
     
  14. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,402

    frank spittle
    Member

    One positive thing about buying a car at auction is they do it for you.
     
    bobwop likes this.
  15. Irvan
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Irvan
    Member

    The VIN problem also devalues your car a LOT plus makes it a serious issue when you sell the car.
     
  16. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,280

    noboD
    Member

    That's a big problem in Pa. if the seller doesn't tell the buyer if it was converted. A local shop was turning sedans into convertibles using repro body parts and got into BIG trouble.
     
  17. In Kansas, you are required to have a vin inspection on an out of state title to get a Ks. title. If the numbers don't match, the officer impounds the vehicle right then. You are out your investment. You can sue the seller and the lawyer gets your money. usually, that's the end of the story. I have no knowledge of your state laws. Good luck with your circumstance.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,355

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I check, every single time.
     
    loudbang and bobwop like this.
  19. I inspect vehicles for insurance companies...plus some other things.
    A V.I.N. is like finger prints, nobody has the same one (except idential twins).
    A lawyer would greatly help to protect you and hopefully get the car back with a proper VIN.
    There was a Chevelle sitting at the nearby Copart for about a year and half with an altered VIN.
    They were able to find the alternate VIN with a mirror (on the rear shock crossmember.
    SLED and the DMV will need to get involved in the mixup to trace the VIN on the title.
    Plus the State police (in Florida it is the State Troppers) will investigate the person who sold it to you.
    Good Luck
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. I’m a dealer in TX and know a little bit about titles.

    Are you sure that the VIN is not a state issued reassigned VIN? If it is and the title matches that VIN number you’re in the clear.

    Sometimes a VIN plate is lost or destroyed for whatever reason so the state inspects the car and issues a new VIN. If an original VIN tag is discovered later in another place on the car it’s just now null and void because the new VIN supersedes the old original VIN. That old original tag can be removed and no harm no foul.

    If that’s not the case it could be the other VIN plate is the bad VIN and the one that matches the title is the correct one after all. You need to try to determine which VIN tag is original and which one is in error. The inspector should be able to help you with this.

    Both of these scenarios are possible.
     
  21. Scenario here is likely somebody lost the title and where ever the car was located it was easier to swap tags and use title from parts car than to go through the trouble to get a replacement title.

    New York makes this stuff so easy now, it's one of the few perks of being here. No titles, no DMV inspections, just a couple forms and they check the VIN you use against old records to be sure it hasn't been turned in as salvaged or stolen. If it's clear it's no problem.
     
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,368

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I was going to suggest Steves Nova Site but I see you are already there.
     
  23. ...first of all you should've checked that out before closing the deal,...just because the VIN doesn't match doesn't mean it's stolen...good luck with your problem, hope you can figure it out to your liking....keep us informed, good info here for all...
     
  24. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 813

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    The last 48 F1 I built was pulled from a field no paper work . I bought 48 F4 for cab and Flathead , and TITLE . I used F4 cab and title and never looked back . It was straight up build I never stole a piece and never will , things happen during building of old stuff . Just give it a bit of time to get straightened out , it isn’t going to happen last night .


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,085

    29moonshine
    Member

    from what i am understanding is the vin tag on the door jam was changed to match the title when you run the # it comes back as a 4 dr car vin tag and title, on a 2 dr car. and the factory # stamped in the metal on the cowl does not match?
     
  26. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,432

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    Has anyone run the hidden VIN and checked it's status? If it comes back clean (and out of the system) that will take some of the pressure off of resolving this. If it's dirty I would think the car's going to impound.
     
    Russco and loudbang like this.
  27. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 39,795

    porknbeaner
    Member

    I have no idea what a "sled agent" is but if you were in good old Missouri if you get the Govt. involved it is the highway patrol. You go to them and they write you a ticket for driving a car illegally after they take your car if your numbers don't match.

    If you lived here I would say that you my friend just screwed the pooch. :(
     
    lonejacklarry likes this.
  28. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,368

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    The door jamb/firewall tag differences on first and second generation Novas have been a long simering discussion, it is usually a 6 cyl/V8 mismatch and the conclusion was that's just what Fischer Body did back then.
    There's been many instances over the years of these tags' various differences, it's been a big deal especially when someone buys a big $$$ L79 (or any V8) car and sees the tag difference, now, the real problem is when the authorities get involved in VIN issues.

    This thread from SNS was started in 2009.

    No, the VIN sequence number and Cowl Tag sequence numbers are not supposed to match. They are different numbers so them being different is totally normal. Also, Nova cowl tags have been known to be incorrect when determining original engine. Many tags were stamped for a V8 even though a 4 or 6 cylinder was installed. The VIN will ALWAYS override the cowl tag when there is a discrepancy between the two.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 62chevyBAMA [​IMG]
    I have what I was told to be a 65 SS car. I bought this car a couple months ago from a dealer in Atlanta. THis is my first old car so I knew a lot less about seriously looking for VIN fraud.

    When I saw the pictures of the car, I noticed that the trim tag had a little damage right where the "8" would be in a "11837" . I asked the guy, and he said it must have been damaged at some point and referred me to the VIN which clearly has the 11837 stating the car was a real SS.

    After a couple months now, today I went back out to pull all of the codes for a perspective buyer and here is what I see.

    VIN# on the driver door jamb: 118375N135536

    Cowl Tag/Trim Tag:
    65-11837-NOR13546
    745 KK
    W 2MP 3L
    5WL
    VIN:
    1 = GM division; Chevrolet
    18 = model; Nova SS V8
    37 = body style; 2-door coupe
    5 = mode year; 1965
    N = assembly plant; Norwood, OH
    135536 = VIN sequence number

    Cowl Tag:
    65 = model year; 1965
    1 = GM division; Chevrolet
    18 = model; Nova SS V8
    37 = body style = 2-door coupe
    NOR = assembly plant; Norwood, OH
    13546 = body sequence number
    745 = interior trim; Aqua cloth Standard interior (Not an SS interior)
    KK = exterior paint; Artesian Turquoise
    W = option code; A02 Tinted Windshield
    2M = option code; M35 Powerglide Trans
    P = option code; U63 Push Button Radio
    3L = option code; ???
    5W = option code; Passenger Side Exterior Mirror
    L = option code; Seat Belts

    Something soundy fishy. Check the VIN on the firewall under the driver side frnder to verify the VIN on the door jamb.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 62chevyBAMA [​IMG]
    Ok,

    So I need to pull the drivers side fender off the car and look for a hidden VIN.

    If the car has origional sheet metal like I was told, then this should be on the car. This is on the "body" of the car and not the fender right?

    I'll go pull the fender off now to take a look. I'll also get some pictures of the door VIN so you can see it.
    Yes, it's on the body (the firewall). Here's where it should be located:


    http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117104

     
  29. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 39,795

    porknbeaner
    Member

    o_Oo_O
    Here's an odd one from the beginning of the run 'til July of '64 it was a crap shoot if your Belaire even had a cowl tag. They were built at the GM Leeds plant here in KC and my neighbor up the street took over as line foremane just because of that problem. I cannot even count that Belaires that I scrapped because I didn't know that. o_O
     
  30. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,085

    29moonshine
    Member

    ^^^ if the vin#states it is a 4dr car and it is a 2dr body there is a problem that did not happen at the factory
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.

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