Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Vanishing Fuel

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kevin Ardinger, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,441

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Is Non Ethanol available in California ?
    I was there this summer visiting my son (Beale Air base) and could not find any in that area.
    Ended up getting really pissed off when trying to fill my Harley.
    Didn't know the pump nozzle had to be fully pushed into the tank to operate a safety feature to supposedly to catch vapors/spill and making it impossible to visually top off a cycle tank.
    Only did one Harley fill there, may be it could have been be tripped by hand?

    Did I mention I HATE CALIFORNIA :mad:
     
    Deuces and kevinrevin like this.
  2. Vimtage Iron
    Joined: Feb 28, 2010
    Posts: 554

    Vimtage Iron
    Member

    The trick with these dumb ass nozzles here in Ca is to pull and hold the rubber seal up with a couple fingers and then you can run the pump.
    Starting fluid, either, what ever you want to call it will wash the oil off of the cylinder walls, not a good idea to use it often to try to start an empty carb, filling the bowl with a squirt bottle is a better way to go.
     
  3. coupe man
    Joined: Sep 1, 2007
    Posts: 264

    coupe man
    Member

    I have a 350 olds and a quadrajet carb with a mechanical fuel pump.With a fuel pressure guage in line it shows 6 psi when running but when shut down the pressure drops slowly back to zero.Won't the fuel pump hold that pressure in the line with the engine off.Also the fuel enters at the bottom of the bowl so the fuel would drain out then.
     
  4. coupe man
    Joined: Sep 1, 2007
    Posts: 264

    coupe man
    Member

    Allright, just read my question and the needle and seat should keep the fuel in the bowl.Still wonder about the fuel pressure in the line.Thanks
     
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Non-Ethanol gas is not available in California.

    The pump nozzle bellows is easily pulled back.

    I am on a motorcycle most days, and there is no issue topping off.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The bowl is vented to the atmosphere.

    Hot engine + vent = flash off of light hydrocarbon fuels.
     
    Happydaze, Truck64 and Johnny Gee like this.
  7. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,236

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    www.pure-gas.org lists 24 stations in California
     
  8. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 7,091

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    If I had a carb(s) that would not hold fuel for a week or more, I'd be concerned it was draining into my engine, and diluting my engine oil! If I was the OP I'd be pulling the dipstick and smelling the oil to be sure it's not contaminated with gas, and wont protect the engine.
     
    G-son likes this.
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Almost exclusively expensive race fuel, and almost all nowhere near major population centers.

    If you have to drive farther than a tank of gas to buy ridiculously expensive gas, then what's the point?

    The only station on that list near me is 40-miles away. I just called them. The person on the phone said that they don't sell E0 Ethanol-free, and they wish people would stop calling about it.
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  11. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,360

    Boneyard51
    Member

    We discussed this on another thread, but there is a technique you can use to maybe start better!
    First of all a mechanical fuel pump pumps via a spring pushing on a diagram. The engine just “ loads” this spring. This pressure developed by the diagram / spring has to push fuel through a small orfice , needle valve and seat. And in your case three of them!
    So, just spin your engine about one or two revaluations. Then wait about 10/ 15 seconds and do it again. Then possibly a third time. Then pump your accelerator pedal and start normally. Usually it will start right up.
    Continuing to grind the starter doesn’t really give the fuel pump time to push the fuel into the carbs. Even while the engine is setting between turning it over two times, the fuel pump is pumping. .... provided the engine did not stop, depressing the spring in the fuel pump.
    I learned this on the ranch many moons ago, trying to start old trucks that had been setting a while and had a battery that was somewhat run down from setting!








    Bones
     
    coupe man, Kevin Ardinger and Truck64 like this.
  12. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,236

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Deuces likes this.
  13. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,236

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    This is a very common problem with carbureted engines across many makes and models.

    The carb bowls actually hold the fuel, at least most of it. This isn't the problem, there is some fuel in the bowl, it doesn't completely evaporate, and there's also usually enough fuel to operate the "squirters" or carb accelerator pump circuit.

    What there isn't enough of, are the volatile lighter ends of the fuel that makes for quick reliable starts. This is the "stuff" that boils off quickly in an open to the atmosphere fuel system.

    The "tell" here in this situation, is that by simply pouring about an ounce or so of fresh fuel down the carb throat the engine lights off instantly.
     
  14. Kevin Ardinger
    Joined: Aug 31, 2019
    Posts: 367

    Kevin Ardinger
    Member

    That is kind of what I started doing. It only takes about two brief cranks. Then I pump it twice and crank it again and it usually starts right up


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  15. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,595

    AHotRod
    Member

    Normal ... todays gas evaporates fast, just deal with it and crank the engine.
     
  16. aircap
    Joined: Mar 10, 2011
    Posts: 1,615

    aircap
    Member

    Modern fuels are not mixed for carburetors - they are mixed for fuel injectors. They want that stuff to atomize easily.

    Also, modern fuels will separate into all the various blends if they sit long enough, and there isn't enough mixing power around to unite them again.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  17. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,060

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Hmm, so if you were to block off the vent until the next start, might keep the fuel in the bowl?
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  18. KKrod
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,202

    KKrod
    Member

    May need to go to the vintage hand pump in the dash. Mine is not hooked up for obvious safety reasons. I have a fuel line isolator ready to go to put on the firewall side. I have had this problem and I thought it was something unique to my car. It has a 3 X 2 carbs.
    IMG_5442.JPG IMG_5474.JPG
     
    Boneyard51 and Kevin Ardinger like this.
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What does California have to do with it?

    We have over thirty million registered vehicles on the road here, with an unknown number of out-of-state ones at any given time. The average age of a vehicle in the US fleet is right about 12-years-old. That means fuel injection, and closed emissions control systems. The last civilian car sold with a carburetor was in 1990, with police/municipal following in 1991. The last truck, in 1994. That's 30, 29, and 26-years ago, respectively.

    There is no business model on Earth that would support having Ethanol free fuel at the pump, to support a market that does not even register as a rounding error on the account books. The cumulative amount of fuel that the petroleum industry is allowed to leak into the environment is several orders-of-magnitude larger than all of the fuel that the rod and custom market uses.

    We are quite emphatically a market not worth serving, in any state.

    https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repo...summary-california-vehicle-and-transportation
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/28/average-vehicle-age-ihs-markit/1593764001/
    https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/what-was-last-car-america-sold-carburetor-260855
     
    Boneyard51 and Baumi like this.
  20. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,632

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    California policy regarding automobiles has been & continues to be , health/ safety issues aside , the initiator of rules & regulations that establishes themselves as the bane of hotrod & classic car owners existence .
     
  21. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,441

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Does a fuel injected vehicle run better on 10% ethanol v/s non ethanol fuel :confused:
     
  22. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,632

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Doesn't necessarily run any better , but the engine management system can adjust to it " on the fly".
     
  23. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,236

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    The ethanol-laced fuels tend to be more hygroscopic and prone to phase separation and don't play well with older fuel systems. It isn't so much they won't run, it's what they do sitting in the vented steel tanks, in the buna rubber lines, and in alloy carburetor bowls that's the problem.
     
  24. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 390

    Glenn Thoreson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Wyoming

    It's something we have to live with these days. I put an electric fuel pump on my flatheads to cure this and cures vapor lock also. Y'all remember flatheads and vapor lock, don't ya? Just be sure you mount the pump as near to the gas tank as practical. They're meant to push, not pull. Turn on the pump to prime the carb. Running down the road in hot weather, if you feel the engine starting to lean out, just turn on the pump before the carb runs out of gas. You can always turn it off when not needed.
     
    gimpyshotrods and olscrounger like this.
  25. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,814

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Maybe throw a bottle of 104+ in a tank of gas in your hotrod. And while your at it, throw those 11to 1's back in. :cool: Lippy
     
    Kevin Ardinger likes this.
  26. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,360

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Gimpy..... why you keep slapping us around with the truth?








    Bones
     
    gimpyshotrods and David Gersic like this.
  27. Solve the problem with the addition of an electric fuel pump and on and off switch.
     
  28. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,575

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Interesting how today's vehicles self prime themselves as well. A few people mentioned pre-priming and how to do it.
     
  29. LOL I like 'em full time.

    Lots of guys use an electric for a primer pump but if your car starts without it why bother. crank it a little bit and go when it starts
     
  30. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,178

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am so tired of people digging deep to find any reason to bash my state, even when "the problem" is simply basic Capitalism.
     
    KKrod and Boneyard51 like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.