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Technical Valve keeper out of the groove

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by StefanS, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,156

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    1955 Chevy 235. Has anyone ever seen this and know
    a) what may have caused it and
    b) how it's even possible that it's not forced/pressed back into the groove?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 529

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    It was assembled wrong. The keeper is in the groove for the ring seal.
     
    Hnstray, 302GMC, ottoman and 4 others like this.
  3. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,367

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Could happen if it hit the piston.
     
  4. Bob Lowry
    Joined: Jan 19, 2020
    Posts: 691

    Bob Lowry

    X2 with onetrickpony. Have worked with 235" for 50yrs.
     

  5. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,707

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Possibly installed wrong... Valve train looks like it's going helter-skelter when running, but those keepers didn't jump.
    Picture them as 'white men'. They DON'T JUMP.
    There's a movie....
     
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  6. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,156

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    So do you guys think it can be reassembled correctly and run or do you think the valve stem and/or keeper are shot from the pressure of the spring digging it in?
     
  7. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,653

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Had one loose on a 55 pickup. I didn’t know any better I just fixed set the valves and went on
     
    Lost in the Fifties likes this.

  8. Only one way to find out!

    if it goes back together correctly and it runs I would think your fine.

    I saw it once on an inline 6 jag that had valve seals done snd came back for a leak couple thousand miles later and a few of the keepers came out of there grooves and wedged into the spring.
    Engine ran fine. I put air in the cylinder and put the keepers back correctly and no issues and those valve stems are about as thick as a Q-Tip !
     
    Stogy, fauj and Truckdoctor Andy like this.
  9. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,156

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Good deal we shall see
     
    Stogy and VANDENPLAS like this.
  10. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,475

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    In High School Auto Shop one of guys said the lower groove was used when you wanted to have higher spring rate when running a bigger cam.
     
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  11. big john d
    Joined: Nov 24, 2011
    Posts: 255

    big john d
    Member
    from ma

    an old article by reher and morrison ( pro drag engine builders) said the groove only locates the keepers the taper is what keeps them in place it is hard to believe but who will argue with them
     
  12. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,416

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Too much power.....
     
  13. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 529

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    I would check the spring closely before reassembling it. It could have been running on the ragged edge of coil bind. If the seat pressure is good and the spring isn't bent/lopsided/cracked then it should be fine to reuse.
     
  14. an old article by reher and morrison ( pro drag engine builders) said the groove only locates the keepers the taper is what keeps them in place it is hard to believe but who will argue with them


    Uhhh, the groove also keeps the keeper from sliding off the valve stem, the taper keeps the spring retainer from coming off but the groove definitely does more then just locate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    Hnstray likes this.
  15. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,002

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The lower ring is for an 0-ring to help keep excessive oil from going to the guide. It isn’t cut the same as a keeper groove either. Modern valves don’t have 2 grooves anymore because of better seals.
     
    olscrounger and 57 Fargo like this.
  16. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,156

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    So the keeper is in the bottom groove as opposed to the upper groove where it's supposed to be? I've never had one of these heads apart so I'm not exactly sure what the valve stems look like
     
  17. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,971

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    ^^^^^^^^^
    Ever had a Chev V8 apart ?
     
  18. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,475

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,049

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    one trick pony nailed it and you are correct in your assumption that it is in the wrong groove.
    Unless there are other issues you don't have to pull the head to fix it though.
    You can use the tool to apply air pressure to the cylinder to hold the valve up while you compress the spring and check and then fix the problem or The cheap and simple way is to go get a length of 1/4 inch cotton rope and turn the engine so that the piston is down in the cylinder and stuff the rope in the cylinder and then BY HAND turn the crank until the piston pushes the rope up against the valves. Then you can work away with valve spring and keepers without fear of dropping the valve in the cylinder. When the spring and keepers are back on right, you just back the piston down enough to pull the rope out. For me the rope trick works better when I am only doing one cylinder than the air especially if I might have to leave to get a part.
     
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  20. Bob Lowry
    Joined: Jan 19, 2020
    Posts: 691

    Bob Lowry

    Here is another picture...sbc and 235"'s have the same set up on the valve stem keepers and valve seal.

    keeper.jpg
     
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  21. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,156

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Thanks everyone. I had a 350 I rebuilt once but the shop took care of the head work. I had a '54 235 head redone once as well but again the machine shop did the work
     
    Bob Lowry and Stogy like this.
  22. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 21,195

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's Hotrod man! Oh yeah!...where mistakes can win races...:eek:...maybe...:p
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
    Tickety Boo, Bob Lowry and Hnstray like this.

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