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Hot Rods Valiant Wagon

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oakmckinley, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Lol, and you wouldn't be the first. A friend and I snapped three off on his deuce-and-a-half one day, and he was an Army trained mechanic.
     
  2. I hadn't noticed that initially... I got hooked when I saw "slant six". :p

    Yes, solid lifters. If the noise settles down when things are at operating temperature they're mighty close to the proper adjustment and shouldn't require any immediate attention. Though you might still want to pull the valve cover just to make sure things aren't too sludged up and that the oil drain passages are clear.
     
  3. GTS225
    Joined: Jul 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,173

    GTS225
    Member

  4. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    As for valve noise of slant sixes... I have owned and worked on dozens of them, only one had a quiet valve train. That was an old pickup truck that had been used hard, with 160,000 miles on it BUT had been maintained by the book including valve adjustments. It was as quiet as any hydraulic lifter motor, and quieter than one with that many miles.

    None of the others were as quiet even after being properly adjusted. If the adjustments are neglected the valve gear gets pounded and peened over. But if they are kept adjusted every 30,000 miles or so are dead quiet stone cold or red hot.
     
  5. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Since it is a manual trans my thoughts are going to a hopped up slant six and 5 speed. Rebuild the suspension, a new set of gas shocks and quality radial tires and you will have as good a car as any modern small car.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    ClayMart likes this.
  6. 2bubbas
    Joined: Mar 19, 2011
    Posts: 611

    2bubbas
    Member

    Always liked those odd ball Dodge and Plymouth-
     
  7. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You might be surprised what a rare car that is. 1966 was the last Valiant and Dart station wagon, they got a new body for 67 that had no wagon in the lineup. I can only conclude that they did not sell enough to bother with. I don't recall seeing very many Dart or Valiant wagons, and they were all the early 1961 - 62 style.
     
  8. oakmckinley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 241

    oakmckinley
    Member

    I was thinking that? Personally I'd never seen a Valiant wagon before just the sedans.

    I'm not gonna do much to it. I'm going to put new ignition components in it and change all the fluids. Yes I was planning on going to a gas shock, the current ones look original. The tires were brand new when I got it. Sweet!

    I'm gonna attempt the valve adjustments. I haven't done too many and I always get a little nervous so I'm sure I'll be back with more questions at the time.

    Thanks everyone for the thumbs up!!!
     
  9. Sounds like a good plan. Hope you drive it a lot.
    Just methodically follow the valve adjustment procedure. If you don't have a manual I'm sure someone here will hook you up.
    Rustie O'Toole seems to know his old mopars. You'll be fine.
     
  10. kbgreen
    Joined: Jan 12, 2014
    Posts: 337

    kbgreen
    Member

    Very nice. I had a 71 Duster which was a variant model. Dad had a 66 4 dr Valiant (radio delete), neighbor when I was a kid had a 60 or 61 model. Virgil Exner was a real artist! Loved the cars. You made me go back to read about the history of the car as well view the model changes over the years. Thanks and good luck with it.
     
  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Factory recommended setting .010 on the intake, .020 on the exhaust. You are supposed to adjust them with the engine good and hot, as after a 10 mile drive, and the engine running.

    The engine should idle down quite slow, adjust it as slow as it will go and still run smoothly.

    Take the valve cover off. Clean the valve cover but it is best not to disturb the dirt and sludge on the head unless you clean it off very carefully with a shop vac and air hose and don't allow any dirt to run down the oil drain passages into the crankcase. It can plug up the oil pickup screen and destroy your engine, I lost my first slant six this way when I got over zealous with the cleaning.

    With the engine idling slowly, check each valve between the valve and rocker arm with a feeler gauge. .010 on the intake, .020 on the exhaust. The position of the valves is obvious from the position of the intake manifold and exhaust manifold, but it it E I E I E I I E I E I E. The feeler gauge should slide in with a slight drag. Won't fit too tight, no drag too loose.

    You will need wrenches, feeler gauges, and a new valve cover gasket. The gasket should be available from any parts store although you may have to order it.

    Clean the valve cover and inspect the flange where it meets the head. If the bolt holes are dimpled, straighten them with a small hammer, backing up the metal with a block of wood or steel. Be sure the flange is even. Glue the gasket to the valve cover with a little silicone sealer. Press it down on a flat surface like your work bench. You should do this first so the silicone can dry while you do the valves. When you install the valve cover, smear some grease or oil on the gasket and it won't stick to the head. Do not over tighten the valve cover bolts, with a fresh gasket you won't need to.

    If this is done every 20000 to 30000 miles the valve gear will be perfectly quiet, unfortunately most of them were neglected, but an adjustment will quiet them down considerably.

    I looked for videos on Youtube, there are a few but all show the engine idling much faster than it should. Slow down the idle as far as possible before you start work. They idle down much slower than newer cars, 500rpm or less.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    brad2v likes this.
  12. It will go a bit easier if you use a a long handled, offset box-end wrench (3/8" IIRC). A 3/8" breaker bar and socket will work too. Avoid using a ratchet, it's too clumsy.

    As much as possible, keep the wrench handle parallel to the rocker shaft when adjusting. If it's inline with the rocker arm's travel it makes too much monkey motion and is harder to keep a grip on it. Keeping the RPM low will also help control the oil splash off the rockers.

    (optional) :D If you're really feeling adventurous connect a vacuum gauge to a manifold vacuum source and watch how it responds to your changes in valve lash adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  13. I had a 65 Wagon several years back. It was a good car. If you are planning on upgrades,start with the brakes. 65's had 9 inch brake drums,maybe check yours. Over 65 MPH it seemed like it had no brakes at all. Already mentioned,is front disc brake from a Demon/Duster. 67/68 Valiants had 10 inch read brakes. [not sure if it is a bolt in]. If you plan on upgrading to a 340/360.you will need to find a front K member for a V8 car [64-66 Barracuda] I learned this the hard way. Changing will also change the bolt pattern. Allowing better choice of wheels. Enjoy your new car.
     
  14. Lebowski
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 1,570

    Lebowski
    BANNED

  15. oakmckinley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 241

    oakmckinley
    Member

    Oh my gosh thank you so much for the detailed instructions Rusty O'toole!!

    I appreciate all this info so much!
    You can't get all this from the shop manual, like how to hold the wrench or the best type to use or don't knock any garbage off the valve cover.
     
  16. oakmckinley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 241

    oakmckinley
    Member

    I'm gonna stick with the six for now. So no plans for an engine swap anytime soon.
    As I've gotten older I truly appreciate enjoying things at an easy pace.

    The brakes work pretty well already but I'm gonna take a peek under each drum to make sure things look alright.

    Here's a question? Is it really necessary to swap in a dual bowl master cylinder? I did that on my fairlane cuz I heard stories of absolutely no brakes if you blow a line on the single bowl master? I don't mind doing it but what're you guys and gals thoughts?
     
  17. Of course s dual system is much safer. Personally I wouldn't worry with a single master. But I would be sure all my lines were in very good shape as well as wheel cylinders.
    Lines don't generally randomly blow. They blow if they are rusty or if flex hoses are old.
     
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You should clean the garbage off the valve cover, just don't get it inside the engine. You can clean the valve cover and even paint it, if you like.

    It's the head you have to be careful of. Either don't clean off any dirt and sludge or, be very careful it does not go down the oil drain back holes or down around the pushrods. If I had one that was very dirty I would plug the drain back holes with rags, and wrap bits of rag around the pushrods, plugging the holes. Then clean off the junk, vacuum with a shop vac and blow clean with an air hose.

    But, it's a lot easier to just leave it be.
     
  19. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,685

    Binger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wyoming

    Have fun with your new project. I have your car's older Dodge cousin. Here is a pic of my '61 Lancer.

    wagon.jpg
     
    hotrodtodd1960 and RodStRace like this.
  20. Lebowski
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 1,570

    Lebowski
    BANNED

    No. I still have the single one on my Edsel which weighs a lot more than your Valiant so just take it easy and don't drive it like a race car and you'll be fine. Good luck....
     
  21. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    The dual master cylinder is safer if you blow a brake line. With the stock master, the only backup you have is the parking brake. So, make sure it is adjusted up and working well. Inspect the brakes, including the brake lines. If the brake lines are not rusty, and the flex hoses are not cracking, it should be ok. But, if you ever do a brake job or need a new master cylinder the dual cylinder is a good idea.

    O ya you have a manual trans which means you have engine braking so, not too much to worry about if everything is in good shape.
     
    shawnsauto1 likes this.
  22. That thing is as ugly as a mud fence,I love it! HRP
     
  23. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,041

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    No sweat. Being able to stop is highly overrated.:rolleyes: Single masters were the thing "back in the day" but it only takes one wheel cylinder to fail and you have no brakes. I guess it boils down to your emphasis on safety. My avatar was real fast getting to the triple digits but scary as hell trying to slow down. It had the single master at the time. I look back on those times when I really needed to slow down quick and kinda cringe.
     
  24. The stock master is fine as long as everything is in good shape, I drove a 65 valiant for years with one. Yes a dual reservoir is Safer... Sort of. Make sure your emergency brake works and you are golden! How many hydraulic failures happen with well maintained brake systems.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,309

    RodStRace
    Member

    Yep, as said, great looking example. That (ahem) year has a different grille than earlier examples.
    Also agree with the valve adjust suggestion and the lug nuts. Also make sure the full lubrication is done. Most have suffered from neglect for decades because newer cars don't require grease as much. Check the trans and diff! Make sure the wiper seals aren't leaking - have a friend run a hose over them while you lay under the dash with a flashlight. With rubber floor mats, a leak WILL cause rusty floors.

    As for ignition, I'd suggest getting another distributor from either a wrecking yard or parts store. The drive gear is nylon and can break easily, but it's a LOT easier swapping the points and condenser on the bench instead of half way down the engine with the breaker plate hole swallowing screws (falling into the advance weight area).

    Make sure the exhaust flapper valve operates properly (not stuck closed).
    To tell if it's a 170 or 225, look at the hose between the water pump and the thermostat/head.
    Here's info and the site you can use to learn more...
    http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8308&sid=98a6efea6f2ede2d9de194439cc54809

    Oh and Binger, I lust after one of those. Not a 62, not a Valiant, but a 1961 Lancer wagon!
     
  26. oldwood
    Joined: Mar 13, 2010
    Posts: 920

    oldwood
    Member
    from arkansas

    Look for a Super 6 set up off of a Dodge Aspen or Plymouth Volare. Its a factory 2bbl set up and was also used on trucks. It was used @ 3yrs and was optional. The exhaust is also larger. It really wakes up the /6.
     

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  27. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,309

    RodStRace
    Member

    If you grab a super six setup, make sure to get the throttle cable, pedal and 'kickdown' or pressure linkage. The older stuff had linkage working sideways to the motor, the super uses linkage and cable straight with the motor... not a game ender, but on a budget it could cause heartache.
    Also, read up on changing intake/exhaust gaskets. It is not just a bolt it up process. You gotta do things just right to prevent leaks and broken hardware.

    swap info here
    http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/super-six-install-pics.145942/
     
    oldwood and brad2v like this.
  28. Once upon a time in Vietnam Nam we had a tug with a 225 with auto. Happened to spill brake fluid on the calve cover. Under the red paint was a chrome valve cover


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    OahuEli likes this.
  29. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,298

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    The Super Six used the same 2 barrel as a 318 but there were subtle differences. You want to get everything if you do this swap. The exhaust is the same shape but 1/2" larger. Same exhaust manifold.

    They are fussy about exhaust manifold gaskets. They must be fitted right and the bolts tightened to 12 ft pounds, no more. The exhaust has to be able to expand with heat. If it leaks DO NOT tighten the bolts, the manifold will break in 2. Replace the gasket, it isn't hard.
     
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I see the future, it is here...
     

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