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V8 starter won't spin Chevy 235 crank. Why?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Westside Lefty, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    I'll make this as short as possible. I have a 54' Chevy w/ a 235 with a 700R4 behind it. I got the adapter kit from Langdon's Stovebolt. I recently had the motor rebuilt and now the starter won't seem to spin the flywheel fast enough. I bought the starter from Stovebolt when I bought the kit and they always match the starter to the flywheel. They use a V8 starter with the kit so it should have enough juice to spin even a tight new 6 cyl. The transmission swap only has about 5,000 miles on it. The starter was tested and is fine. Can anybody tell me what the hell is going on!?
     
  2. jerry
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,474

    jerry
    Member

    re you running 6V or 12V?


    jerry
     
  3. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

  4. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,027

    Revhead
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    is your car/truck 12v or 6v?

    was the engine just rebuilt or was it turning over fine with a different starter?

    Can you turn the engine over by hand easy enough or does it feel tight?
     

  5. flatblackindustries
    Joined: Oct 7, 2006
    Posts: 645

    flatblackindustries
    Member
    from Ogden, UT

    question: Are you sure its shimmed properly and engaging the flywheel?
     
  6. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    The engine is tight but not overly. It is engaging the flywheel and spinning it with now plugs. With plugs it won't spin. It's been converted to 12V.
     
  7. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,581

    sdluck
    Member

    Test the amp draw of the starter,a 6 cylinder should be under 200 amps to turn over,
     
  8. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,027

    Revhead
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    So did you ever have this engine as-is with a different starter that spun it at a decent speed? or is this a whole new build with new starter, engine, etc?

    My brother's new 235 spins sorta slow as well, fast enough to start though.

    It doesn't spin at all with plugs in? not even part way around?

    I'd check the shims like was suggested above, then the battery cables and ground. If the battery is far away, make sure you have BIG cable.

    If you are not sure on the cables or connections, try to get the battery close to the starter, using short cables and hook it up. Jumper the solenoid to start it and see if there is any change


    You can also roughly check the breakaway torque of the engine, by using a torque wrench to turn it over.
     
  9. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    This is a fresh rebuild with a 6 month old V8 starter. The thing isn't even in the car yet. We just put a fresh battery directly to the starter. It spun slow and it drained the battery after 3 go's. It spins part way with plugs.
     
  10. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,027

    Revhead
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    are the connections solid to the starter, battery and ground? Our weren't at first and it wouldn't barely turn it over either.

    When it goes part way round with plugs, does it stop abruptly or just run out of steam? any chance the plug reach is too far?

    what did you use for assembly lube? STP or motor honey in the cold will make it very difficult to turn.
     
  11. What I got so far is this motor has not ran yet after the rebuild ,
    Is the trans bolted up?
    You doing this on the floor or on the stand?
    how did you verify the started as good?
     
  12. 52HardTop
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 921

    52HardTop
    Member

    Hey Westside, when assembling the crank and main bearings did she spin easily by hand? When checking the thrust bearing , or rear intermediate, for lash was it spinning then? When all mains and bearings were torqued did it spin then?
    Dom
     
  13. 6inarow
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,281

    6inarow
    Member


    Is this the block that Sissels did?
     
  14. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    Sissels did the block
     
  15. 6inarow
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,281

    6inarow
    Member

    Well, that aint it then. gotta be somewhere else. I dont know how close you are to their shop, but it might be worth contacting them and asking them to take a look at it. Its something simple......
     
  16. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    OK. So maybe I'll take the starter somewhere besides Kragen. Thanks fellas.
     
  17. ja992
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 26

    ja992
    Member
    from Fargo, ND

    Is there paint on the block where the starter mounts? I have seen this cause poor grounding for the starter on a newly rebuilt engine before.
     
  18. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,110

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    A thought: Did the 235 original flywheel and starter drive gear have a larger reduction than the V8 flywheel and starter? Could be that you have less reduction and the 235 needs more reduction.
     
  19. ja992
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 26

    ja992
    Member
    from Fargo, ND

    Just curious did you get this problem figured out?
     
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,153

    squirrel
    Member

    They're the same, or very close to the same. If anything, the V8 starter has a smaller gear on it (more reduction)
     
  21. Ball and Chain
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 1,157

    Ball and Chain
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Iv'e got the same set up with a high tourque works like a charm.
     
  22. sun down
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 471

    sun down
    Member
    from tx

    I knew a guy who rebuilt a motor once, ever thing went ok till he tried to crank it....would hardly turn over, he even hooked up 2 batteries to it, not much better............problem ended up being he had put over size rings in it because of them being miss matched in the box.. he was not a happy camper

    I am sure that an't your problem but...................
     
  23. I wasn't be the one to say it, but I've seen that before. It was a couple of brothers from down the block who had a similar problem. I left when they were hooking up 36 volts to spin it over. It seems that they didn't know that rings had to be fit to the bores.

    Hopefully the problem here is something external like a bad ground, dragging starter, etc.

    Bob
     
  24. Herdez
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 357

    Herdez
    Member

    When I worked in the autoparts buis. I noticed that half of the starters I tested in the day were in fact bad. 5-6 starters test a day. They may look like they crank fine until you put a load on them (like the end of a hammer) on the gear. The gear comes out and spins but youll notice it doesnt have enough torque to spin with the hammer end on it.

    Also if you run more than 11.00:1 you may want to look into a reduction starter.
     
  25. Westside Lefty
    Joined: Jul 25, 2007
    Posts: 332

    Westside Lefty
    Member
    from Venice

    Just an update: Mechanic is a jackass. PERIOD
     

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