Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical V8 Quick Change Conversions

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by jseery, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    As I recall, when I converted my rearend, I had to replace the 12 tooth spider gears with 11 tooth models. Don't know if this applies to your situation?
     
  2. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Believe it depends on the side gears you use, some require the 11 tooth spiders and some the 12 tooth spiders.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  3. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I like your thinking and I continue to do things the hard way. I just don't add up the costs as I go. I am an engineer also. Here is my champ I did a piece at a time for way too much money.
     

    Attached Files:

    • qcr.jpg
      qcr.jpg
      File size:
      55.9 KB
      Views:
      291
  4. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Pew, that looks heavy duty! What's the power plant in front of that?
     
  5. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    An Edelbrock Siganture Series 383 with 460/460 on tap. She makes lots of noise. I am building another one now using a Champ 301 case and 40 side bells. The differential is the hard part of this conversion. I had a Dan Press unit machined to fit the carriers and it works great.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. nice stuff guys....thanks
     
  7. I've worked with both the 201 series and the larger 'Champ' QC's. I always try to convince myself (and do) that piecing them together and doing a lot of the hard work will save me money.

    In the end, I'd probably have been better off buying a completely built unit, setup the way I wanted, with whatever combination of axles, diff and brakes I needed.

    BUT - I can't help myself . . . this is hot rodding - we make a lot of shit ourselves because we CAN and we like too! I think the majority of us are metal sculptors and artists at heart. :D

    We don't tend to buy much art, we make it!

    B&S
     
    x77matt and HemiDeuce like this.
  8. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Carrier is assembled and the pinion is machined. Ready to assemble.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. cabong
    Joined: Nov 29, 2005
    Posts: 881

    cabong
    Member

    Just a note from the sidelines........
    Quickchange or banjo........HRW (Hot Rod Works)!!!! Nick and Ken know their stuff, period!!!! They practice what they preach, and are stars of tradition!!!!
     
  10. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Yep, sure they do good work, but I am doing this one myself!
     
  11. Lot's of great information on here guys......Thanks! All I have to do is just find me a V8 quick change but I have been looking for some time with no luck...
     
  12. DPI makes some good stuff. Was wondering 'how tight' the differential is in yours - as they could be setup multiple ways. How do you like it so far?
     
  13. later 16 tooth axles require an 11 tooth spider gear and the earlier 18 tooth axle requires a 12 tooth spider.
     
  14. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    That is true with the original axles, with 8 or 9 inch axles it depends on the side gears you decide to use! My banjo rear end was out of a 38 and I believe that was the transition year from 18/12 (early 38) to 16/11 (late 38). It was also the transition from 21 stud heads to 24 stud heads. My 38 had 18/12 axles and 21 stud heads. But with the conversion that become a non-issue as the upgraded axles (8 or 9 inch) have to fit into a modified carrier with added side gears. As stated above, the side gears can come from a number of different rear ends and depending on the side gears selected they will require different spider gears to work. Also remember that this modification involves a total mismatch of parts!!! The selection of spider gears is a best fit kind of deal, but none of the combinations are a perfect fit. The best fit I came up with was the 7.5 side gears and 12 tooth spiders, but it is still not a perfect match.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  15. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    As I recall, John set it up as a 1/2 and it worked perfect. I sold the car about a year ago and the two owners have not had any problems. The second owner put in helical cut gears and helped with the noise. I am going to have another DPI unit cut down to fit on this one also.
     
  16. speedshifter
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 312

    speedshifter
    Member

    On my Winters 6 spline gear chart, the ratios given for some of the gear sets are not correct by a small amount. This error could be important to a competition car. Greg White
     
  17. I was wondering what prompted the change from 18/12 to 16/11. Did they need a stronger rear end for the 24 stud engine?
     
  18. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Not sure, that is an interesting question. It is hard to believe that the geared end of the axle was a weak spot. I have never heard of them breaking teeth off, but then my knowledge is limited. The issue with stock early axle as far as I know, was the tapered ends and the key ways. Have seen a lot of them twisted and the key ways messed up, but not any with gear teeth missing.
     
  19. Well, I think the Model T had 24 teeth and since only one tooth drives the car at a time I guess it stands to reason that as the hp/torque went up,they needed fewer larger teeth down to a point that they still got smooth operation.
     
  20. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Some progress on the V8 QC. Should have the axles resplined by the end of the day.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Rex Schimmer
    Joined: Nov 17, 2006
    Posts: 743

    Rex Schimmer
    Member
    from Fulton, CA

    Jseery is correct that the 7.5 Ford side gears will fit and they work very well. I have over 15,00 on my roadster with and early Hildabrand mag quick change with zero problems. I converted my axle housing to full floating bearings and drive hubs from Coleman Brothers Racing and use their 28 spline axles. I have attached a couple of pics.

    There is also a conversion to the Ford 9 inch axle that requires no machining. I have included a couple of pics of that conversion also.

    Rex
     
  22. Rex Schimmer
    Joined: Nov 17, 2006
    Posts: 743

    Rex Schimmer
    Member
    from Fulton, CA

    Let's try the pics again.

    Rex
     

    Attached Files:

    • 972.jpg
      972.jpg
      File size:
      91.3 KB
      Views:
      244
    • 979.jpg
      979.jpg
      File size:
      71.5 KB
      Views:
      248
    • 085.jpg
      085.jpg
      File size:
      99.3 KB
      Views:
      238
    • 092.jpg
      092.jpg
      File size:
      95.4 KB
      Views:
      246
  23. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    Splined the axles today and set the backlash and preload on the carrier.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    What are you using for a cutter for the splines?
     
  25. comming along nicely. looks great
     
  26. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    A beveled cutter on a Bridgeport Mill. The axles are hard so the cutters do not last long! It takes several passes to get the correct depth. Because of the hardness of the carriers and axles it takes very high quality cutters to work on them!
     
  27. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Hard yes! I made carbide insert cutter years ago and was a good thing I made lots of inserts and all I was doing was cleaning a bad cut re-spline that Moser did, I would have gone thru lots of inserts if I had to start on clean diameter...None the less I had to clean both axles so as to get them the same size so when I splined the ID of the axle gears I could make them [two plus two extra by wire edm] all the same and a close fit as the gears were/are pretty narrow, this was in a pulling garden tractor transaxle..Looks like your making good progress...
     
  28. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    I'll check the brand of the cutters we are using, they make a clean cut. First cut is about .025 and the second cut .020 (.045). That is working on these axles, some take up to 5 passes! Because the first pass is cutting very little it can be the largest amount and each subsequent cut less because more of the cutting edge is being used. The hardest part is keeping the timing on the degree wheel. It is complicated to rotate to each new spline position and destroyed a very nice axle on the second pass on my first try. Not happy about that at all, but it is extremely ease to do. On some axles it takes a new / re-sharpened cutter each axle, but so far I have gotten two axles out of this cutter.
     
  29. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    What angle are you having the cutters ground to? When I disected an axle gear and a peice of axle spline [ford 28] I discovered the spline was not 90° in the groove and I had planned to use carbide end mills by positioning the end mill at 45° either by angling the head or make cuts by feeding in at 45° [Z&Y-better]..I think I was being anal [ like I noted the axle gears were pretty narrow so I was very worried about contact area] as the difference was maybe little over 1° both ways; the spline came out to be over 90° in the grooves and under 90° at the "points", or mabe the other way around..I forgot I broached the first two axle gears at home [gees that was 27 yrs ago!] and used up all the inserts I made..Not wanting to make more inserts but feeling I should have spares a friend voluntiered to edm the spares..Of course the original two gears never broke.......
     
  30. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    The axles were splined using a 2.5 inch carbide circular cutter that is ground to 90 deg. Both axles are now splined and installed in the rear end. Now, need to take it all apart and clean everything up. Install new axle bearings and seals, paint and that should about be it!
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.