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Projects V12 JOSH SHAW SPRINT CAR

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by RAREBIKE, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. The Essex frames have the desired rear kickup, with straight side rails having a deep cross section. They were originally parallel leaf front, which made it easy for three spring configurations. Single front spring required cutting off the frame horns and fab'ing either a straight or curved crossmember.

    The Franklin steering had the required long sector and a good ratio. Might have been others, but this seemed to be the one of choice. I also have an aluminum housing that uses Franklin internals.

    "Colonel" Alexander made OHV heads, Winfield carb intakes, cams and other goodies for both four banger and V8 Fords in the mid to late 30's. The original brochure I have doesn't show any Brit pieces, though. Can you elaborate?
     
    loudbang and dana barlow like this.
  2. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    If you "need" hairpins for their looks. You can articulate one side at the axle, as shown in the attached sketch. This would be fine on the typical old front brake-less race car. With front brakes, you'ld have to be sure the adjacent hairpin was substantial enough to take the full braking torque reaction.

    20190416_190949.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    Atwater Mike likes this.
  3. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    On further investigation, it appears that Alexander Engineering manufactured cross-flow heads, primarily for BMC "A" and "B" series engines (MGB, Sprite, Midget, Austin, etc.), as well as the British Ford Zephyr. But not the 1172cc British Ford, which I erroneously referenced. Apparently not related at all to the California company, of which I was not familiar.

    Alexander.PNG BMC.PNG Turner.PNG
     
  4. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    My understanding is that the Franklin sector shaft had to be extended for "center steering", just like most other boxes. Amazingly, there was a '31 20190414_092500.jpg 20190414_090543.jpg Franklin for sale at a swap meet I went to Sunday, but it didn't dawn on me to look at the steering box!
     
    catdad49 and Nailhead A-V8 like this.
  5. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I m
    I would absolutely not characterize the Heim joint orientation to be "very poor engineering". For example, they are almost universally applied this way on the outboard ends of suspension A-arms on sports and formula race cars. A typical 3/8" Heim joint is rated at about 12,000 pounds load, at a misalignment of 22 degrees. I would agree that the offset loading must be considered in the design of the attachment brackets, when applied as shown on the pictured chassis. It surely makes it easier to get the bolt in.
     
  6. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,514

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.

    Do not try to defend bad engineering,others also read an learn.
     
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  7. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 377

    AmishMike
    Member

    Went back to check all the pictures & posts. Realized already checked before & have to reply now. Agree Dana right about orientation of that heim joint. I am using just plan to check them often & replace as needed
     
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  8. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Let's get word to the 30,000+/- sports/race car drivers that they are in imminent danger. Well, I guess if they are in a serious accident, they can sue the Heim joint manufacturers for providing grossly overrated load ratings for such an inappropriate application.

    If "others" elect to restrict their thinking unnecessarily, that's fine.
     
  9. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,514

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.

    I'm sorry telling you some facts,failed to get through too you,I tried to do it nice,and didn't want others to do things in away that can fail..
    No one is prefect,but learning gets us all closer.

    It will not matter to you maybe,but knowing who your talking too next time will help you bite a smaller foot. That's just a joke,really hope you have fun with your hot rods.I still do. Good engineering is not a joke.

    I've owned n ran a race shop for 40+ years,retired 25 years ago. I put together many winning sports cars an FV,FSV,FF,FB an C,FA,I was south Fla. dealer for Caldwell, Titan an Beach in the 70s,plus put together Lotus. Lots of oval track racers as well,plus Hot Rods an even pedal bikes n trikes. None from my shop use Heims on there side from designed main movement.

    For others enjoyment an RAREBIKE who was building the vary cool old style sprintcar of this Thread,I'll add a photo of a LOTUS FA that Red an I built from a Lotus F1 tub{ it started life as a F1} for SCCA FA,for David Oxton too drive. f5000smallpic.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  10. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 308

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I admire, and am somewhat envious of, your resume. With me, cars are just an avocation, as I work as a mechanical engineer in the non-automotive field of stress analysis of ultra-high pressure/temperature piping systems. I have an interest in hot rods, but primarily sports/formula cars. As my training is technical, I observe and pay attention to the nuances of design in cars of interest. I presently own Formula Fords (Merlyn 11, Autodynamics D9, Lola 202, Van Diemen), Formula C (Titan M3), FSV (Lola air-cooled), F2 (Rondel/Motul built by Ron Dennis), FVs (Autodynamics, Bobsy), sports racers (Zink Z4/Alfa, Elva Mk 7 twin cam, Bobsy/Porsche 911 SR3, two Jabro/Saabs, Lotus S2, Can-Am), and a few others. Most are in the "future restoration" category.

    Attached are a few internet downloads which you may find of interest, showing various suspension designs, with Heim joint attachment bolts in the same plane as the principal movement of the links.

    Live and learn!

    Alexis-Mk14-CC.jpg Dallara wishbone.jpg F1 wishbone.jpg formula-ford-03.jpg ifs_jpeg.jpg irs trailig arms.jpg IRS.jpg irs_png.png McLaren-M23-DA.jpg pushrod-suspension.jpg rear suspension.jpg suspension_png.png Tyrrell-004-DA.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  11. RAREBIKE
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 441

    RAREBIKE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have been working on this a little at time as work allows and decided to fit up the nose and grille. IMG_0286.JPG IMG_0287.JPG IMG_0288.JPG IMG_0289.JPG IMG_0290.JPG IMG_0291.JPG
    IMG_0292.JPG
    I am still working on getting the grille to pull up close to the body. And with a few parts from Speedway Motors up the street, I can now steer. Still need to add a taper to the steering arm so the rod end seats. IMG_0295.JPG IMG_0299.JPG I found some blank torsion bar arms to use as shock arms on the Roto Flo's.
    IMG_0293.JPG IMG_0294.JPG and with a little shortening, shaping, drilling, and polishing, should look and function just right after adding some linkage.
     
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  12. RAREBIKE
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 441

    RAREBIKE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If someone needs a set of Roto Flo shocks I have them for sale here on the HAMB.
     
  13. rd martin
    Joined: Nov 14, 2006
    Posts: 2,264

    rd martin
    Member
    from indiana

    really neat project! would love to here and see it run!
     
  14. RAREBIKE
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 441

    RAREBIKE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A little more work done today, finally got around to pulling the arms off of the Roto Flo's.
    IMG_0650.JPG IMG_0651.JPG IMG_0652.JPG IMG_0653.JPG IMG_0654.JPG IMG_0300.JPG IMG_0301.JPG IMG_0302.JPG IMG_0303.JPG
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  15. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,769

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've never seen clear picts of a V12 block before. Almost looks like the valve seats are Siamesed. This is a very cool project. Good luck
     
  16. SimonSez
    Joined: Jul 1, 2001
    Posts: 1,629

    SimonSez
    Member

    Glad to see you are still going with this.

    If you get a chance, could you please post the outside width of the frame?
     
  17. longing to hear this fire up..........before I croak
     
    cactus1 likes this.
  18. RAREBIKE
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 441

    RAREBIKE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Jim Huseby at Olympic Speedsters in Oak Grove, MO is forming my body right now. I stopped by today to visit with him, talk design, and see the progress. Building bucks for the tail and nose.
    69D97E15-D194-4C42-952F-552BE68BDDB6.jpeg B45EE15D-ABA8-49CE-8D40-1B72B16B208A.jpeg 263E3713-69D3-4B00-B867-E3F7B07FED9B.jpeg 2EF2CD38-21E2-498A-90A1-318BEE00455A.jpeg 36CF6D91-1864-4399-9BD6-87C6AFE505B2.jpeg 43FB7AC9-322F-43B7-90BB-9496BB414F5D.jpeg 7408792E-AB43-4D33-B1BE-15D4ECAFCC0C.jpeg 3AF17952-A481-4DA6-94F6-25F68723A3B4.jpeg E5DE5D29-A39B-4583-BDDC-8DC7D04D826E.jpeg B376FD7B-ECE0-4697-A760-3747A83197BD.jpeg 78AE2CCB-DA3A-4367-89F2-EC28E35478FA.jpeg F583E931-134B-4B8D-9E26-CF99165ABAD1.jpeg 287956D8-2A76-4E39-8E28-735931C8732B.jpeg 5E1B92D9-1B79-47D4-A96A-8FD475F88B89.jpeg 226121CD-65D7-42F8-8291-7740119BBEB6.jpeg A61D701D-D85D-482A-9BF8-8A33E8836723.jpeg A0EDFADE-D362-4BFE-870D-15821865A73B.jpeg 81D5D169-1E0C-4CD0-9072-253285D4494C.jpeg 9A36E482-976D-4566-B088-F4740A10FE85.jpeg 1775B1C2-106E-46F3-A649-A713418B09ED.jpeg 3D00ACA1-3E79-4C40-87D0-89DD1DBED1D2.jpeg F1EA9C54-1E72-4D10-890D-BCA88A126D85.jpeg 8611BEF5-AA76-406C-9C32-BB77A916EB40.jpeg 00B5ED65-C77A-47C0-85E8-B4744D91D7C5.jpeg DEBB57D4-75C5-4958-83BD-E8F21731EFAF.jpeg E2AF9843-0640-45E3-8509-28AE92ED9713.jpeg A little progress 69D97E15-D194-4C42-952F-552BE68BDDB6.jpeg B45EE15D-ABA8-49CE-8D40-1B72B16B208A.jpeg 263E3713-69D3-4B00-B867-E3F7B07FED9B.jpeg 2EF2CD38-21E2-498A-90A1-318BEE00455A.jpeg 36CF6D91-1864-4399-9BD6-87C6AFE505B2.jpeg 43FB7AC9-322F-43B7-90BB-9496BB414F5D.jpeg 7408792E-AB43-4D33-B1BE-15D4ECAFCC0C.jpeg 3AF17952-A481-4DA6-94F6-25F68723A3B4.jpeg E5DE5D29-A39B-4583-BDDC-8DC7D04D826E.jpeg B376FD7B-ECE0-4697-A760-3747A83197BD.jpeg 78AE2CCB-DA3A-4367-89F2-EC28E35478FA.jpeg F583E931-134B-4B8D-9E26-CF99165ABAD1.jpeg 287956D8-2A76-4E39-8E28-735931C8732B.jpeg 5E1B92D9-1B79-47D4-A96A-8FD475F88B89.jpeg 226121CD-65D7-42F8-8291-7740119BBEB6.jpeg A61D701D-D85D-482A-9BF8-8A33E8836723.jpeg A0EDFADE-D362-4BFE-870D-15821865A73B.jpeg 81D5D169-1E0C-4CD0-9072-253285D4494C.jpeg 9A36E482-976D-4566-B088-F4740A10FE85.jpeg 1775B1C2-106E-46F3-A649-A713418B09ED.jpeg 3D00ACA1-3E79-4C40-87D0-89DD1DBED1D2.jpeg F1EA9C54-1E72-4D10-890D-BCA88A126D85.jpeg 8611BEF5-AA76-406C-9C32-BB77A916EB40.jpeg 00B5ED65-C77A-47C0-85E8-B4744D91D7C5.jpeg DEBB57D4-75C5-4958-83BD-E8F21731EFAF.jpeg E2AF9843-0640-45E3-8509-28AE92ED9713.jpeg ,
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019

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