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Projects V12 into A frame Q...

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by hardtimesainit, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Not sure in right area/forum, sorry if not and will leave if so:) !
    Probably won't happen, due to 'things' in life that get in the way, but I have a V12 flathead that I'm working. I would love to see it in an A roadster/coupe. Have been talking to guys and they think that an A frame will have to be drastically changed to properly hold the V12/'39trans. I've searched and been unable to locate tech/build threads/help on this subject. Can you guys give me some help on steps to take to prepare A frame. Thanks
     
  2. captain scarlet
    Joined: Jun 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,387

    captain scarlet
    Member
    from Detroit

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1393105599.420562.jpg


    Singlefingerspeedshop.com. Detroit
     
  3. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,068

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Model A + Zephyr V12 = Hot Rod Lincoln

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e58NJU5B3v8

    The original hotrod Lincoln was a Model A coupe body on a Lincoln Zephyr chassis. You could put the V12 in the A, it will bolt up to the Ford trans, but will need to lengthen the frame.

    Charley Ryan built the original hotrod Lincoln and recorded the above song in 1955.

    Pictures of Charley and the hot rod plus a couple of other V12 Model A coupes

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=char...arlie-ryan-hot-rod-lincoln-drags.html;360;257
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,947

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I thought all years of the Zephyr had the body welded to the frame. I have only worked on '37-'41. All of those were welded on. Not impossible to remove the body, but it would be a daunting task, and would yield a frame too wide for a Model A body.
     
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  5. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,797

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    Lengthen the A frame two cylinders worth?
     
  6. smshea
    Joined: Feb 19, 2014
    Posts: 2

    smshea
    Member

    Google Rod Hadfield. He's from Australia and dropped one in an A pick up...
     
  7. smshea
    Joined: Feb 19, 2014
    Posts: 2

    smshea
    Member

    Here's a pic of it...
     

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  8. IronFord
    Joined: Jul 13, 2007
    Posts: 319

    IronFord
    Member
    from NoDak

    How about a Deuce frame with a two inch stretch?
     
  9. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,987

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    Look up the information on the one Captain Scarlet posted. There was a full article in Street Rodder Magazine awhile back.

    Frank
     
  10. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Wow ! Some nice pics that get the juices flowing...thanks to all you guys for the encouragement/leads :) !
    Yeah , stretching the A frame about 6" or more is what guys have said.
    Looks like the green A has a '32 frame. Hm, maybe no stretching with that ? Physical challenges make it tough nut to pursue.
    But, bright side is that, darn near got the V12 to where it should run in near future....even if only in the rear yard.
    Any more A V12 pics out there?
     

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  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,068

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Charley Ryan claimed that when he wrecked his Model A he put the body on a 41 Lincoln chassis to make the hotrod Lincoln, and later wrote a song about it. I don't know how he did it, but that was his claim. The car still exists, I linked a bunch of pictures, if they have any clues about how he did it.
     
  12. kyvetteman
    Joined: May 13, 2012
    Posts: 762

    kyvetteman
    Member

    I saw a V12 A roadster recently that used a AA truck chassis which is beefier and has a longer wheelbase and can accommodate the V12 without firewall mods. The AA had a 131.5" wheelbase vs. the 103.5" of the A. He started from the radiator and built back. Once the body was located he bobbed the excess off the back and it looks like it was made that way.
     
  13. Here a few pictures of my Roadster with V12 stock lenght 32 chassis no problems. If you need more pictures let me know.

    Frenchy
     

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  14. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,587

    redo32
    Member

    Attached Files:

  15. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Frenchy,
    Wow, beautiful roadster ! That is just what I have pictured in my mind, well maybe not so well done ! Thank you for posting and for offer to help. I may just take you up on your offer if I get the engine done and locate a '32 frame. Best Regards
     
  16. Ahotrod.nz
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 71

    Ahotrod.nz
    Member

    I've got a '37 V12 mounted in a stock '30 A chassis, with a bit of boxing on the rails, a couple of good xmembers,and a K-member, the Model A chassis is plenty strong enough. My body is a shortened sedan body with 2doors ,so the firewall is moved back . Has a bit of an old dragster look about it.
    There is a guy who took his V12 powered stock length chassised A roadster to the Blowout in Auckland NZ, a couple of years ago, his name is Mark.It looked pretty cool with his owner fabricated 3 x 2barrel carbs on it. Someone on here will have pics of it.
     
  17. Ahotrod.nz
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 71

    Ahotrod.nz
    Member

    Doesn't look like a stock A frame to me.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,947

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It does look Lincoln-esque. Who knows, maybe he did chisel off an entire Lincoln body.
     
  19. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,946

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When Brian Burnett built the famous 'Deucari', he lengthened a '32 frame 3"...everything fit nicely, (his Dad, Rex Burnett, had rendered a set of drawings, including a cutaway prior to the build; Rex Burnett was the same draftsman that penned all of the cutaways for the featured car in the Hot Rod Magazine of the month...he signed his name in the tire mark on the drawing)

    Brian's crew at Street Rods West then sent Gil Ferreira's '32 Vicky down to Magoo, where the frame was lengthened 4", to use a Ferrari V12 in front of the stock Deuce firewall.
    Gil's Vicky was full-fendered, and the Magoo crew lengthened the front fenders to blend into the slightly lengthened running boards.

    I went over the Vicky closely, and couldn't imagine stuffing that Ferrari 12 into the stock length frame...The 4" they stretched it just made the fit 'adequate'. Stock dimensions would have put Magnetti Marellis right in the firewall, and the engine front in the radiator.
    I'm not sure how Frenchy got his to fit so nicely, as the Lincoln seemed similar in length to the Ferraris...
     
  20. Mike

    I was lucky that the firewall on the Denver Deuce has a recess so the engine could be set back. The frame are from American stamping. I had to shorten the torque tube by 6 inches or so.

    Thanks
    Frenchy
     
  21. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,648

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  22. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Frenchy,
    Thanks to all you guys for sharing this info:) !
    Frenchy if American stamping frame, can a guy specify/request a longer length from maker ?
     
  23. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,552

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I saw Charlie Ryan's car and met him at a NSRA event in Spokane in 1982 or 3 and to be kind the car was a tad crude in construction. It was impressive that it had been built back when and survived all that time though.

    I saw this V12 powered coupe at the 2012 Portland Roadster show. The frame is indeed stretched enough to get the engine in V12 powered coupe without cutting the firewall or pushing the radiator forward.
    [​IMG]
    It is a very nicely done and proportioned car that just looks right when you stand there and take it in.
     
  24. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Wow, what a beautiful piece of eye candy ! Thanks for the frame info/tip.
    Hmm, would have never thot of painting a frame white, but then I'd never have a vehicle this nice !
     
  25. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,622

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I'm not a fan of cutting firewalls but I think this is a argument for it... That car looks a little too stretched out where frenchys car looks proportionate with the set back firewall ... I think I would go 32 rails to add some girth to the car and push the front crossmember 2" forward... I wouldn't go more than 3 or its going to start looking funny again...
     
  26. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey thirtytwo,
    Yeah, the '32 rails are looking like a better option than 'stretching' an A frame. Stronger without being boxed also. Looking like a lot less engineering..and I'm not an engineer. I've also got a V12 with a C4 on the back of it. Wonder if that would be easier to putz with than top loader. Although stick is all I know !

    BTW , on your 'too stretched look' comment. I think that this builder must have used the original V12 mounted fan....by the looks of how far out his engine is from the radiator.
    Frenchys looks like maybe he used slim electric fan which would save space also ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
  27. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,946

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That Model A Coupe is nicely done, but is so obvious in the 'stretch', as thirtytwo so aptly mentioned.

    The first time I saw Frenchy's car I had to count spark plugs. That Twelve looks at home in there as a 59 A-B! This is what they refer to as a 'textbook example'.

    I worked on Ferraris for a few years, always been a fan of V12s. (always lusted for a Lincoln flathead 12, but too many things in the way: Firewalls, radiators, (Just kidding!)
    It was other projects that superceded my Twelve Cyl wet dreams... Darn!
     
  28. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 320

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Mike,
    Yeah, know what you mean about 'things' got in the way. Now add infirmity due to playing hard and age..lol I have a warmed up '32 banger in my '30 roadster. But, I look at it and can see that V12 in there. What the heck is the matter with guys like us , huh ! Frenchy did his homework , for sure, before doing his, and that's what I envision. Just learning about the V12 by tearing it down and now about to get it reassembled and running. Flatheads are flatheads...but the hydraulic lifters threw me for a loop ! Reality is diff from dreams and it will most likely end up in someone else dream.
     
  29. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,622

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I'm not well versed on the v12 but I believe the front is the same if not similar to a regular old flathead ...in that case I would use a generator with the fan on it... Also if you are using 32 rails.. You will be able to run a bigger radiator..

    You can get away with not boxing if you leave the wishbones intact and use a torque tube, it's when you split the bones things start tugging and pulling on the chassis, also have found the aftermarket rails to be a bit softer than orig. ones ..they seem to like being boxed better. I have done many 32 frames with chassis engineering center x member and just box front and back and leave center open... Works really well and pleanty strong
     

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