Technical Using body lead over phosphoric acid treated metal?

I'm with you Ralphie. I'm not looking for a show car finish.

 

I would blast it and might even leave some light rust so as not to make more holes. Wire brushed just seem to glaze over for me.

 

I totally get this. I do however think you want the SS trim back on and to fit well. I have had some dealings with the Zink metal spray with mixed results. I would definitely say it's an option done from the inside. I'm not so sure I'd cut a 10" section out and do a patch that size just yet. I'm trying to come up with a method that I'd do myself. I'm not there yet. The down side to the Zink spray is that you have to farm that out. Also not all shops that do it are good at it. Once done you own what ever it is as well as stuck with it. You can't bump it with a Hammer to tune it up at all.

 

Yes the stainless will go back on. Not planning on deleting that at all.

It's a given that the rust needs to be gone. What's not a given is how best to do that with the least amount of collateral damage.

 

One thing for sure, myself I would not blast it with normal shop type pressure blaster and sand of any kind. It looks to be way to soft (thin) for that treatment. Glass shot and 70 lbs of air different deal.

 

As janky as it sounds, I wonder if just treating the rust with an encapsulator like POR 15 or Eastwoods product and then using JB Weld as filler would get it done.

The beltline on this car is an area where the top half and bottom half come together and are really 2 separate pieces. After looking closer at cutting strips of beltline off the donor cars, I see that the profile of the beltline is slightly different as the beltline off the donor car is rolled through the side panel and the one on the Sedan Delivery has a flange on the bottom edge of the beltline where the top and bottom halves of the body are joined. A "seam" if that makes sense.

 

I suspected a seam was there. Do you have a tig? A mig in my hands would burn right through that thin metal even with a copper backer.

 

So I put some real thought into this last night. Like were it Mine how would I do it and if it was a Customers what would I do. Again I like the "KISS" method in both cases but one means I have very little time to get it done and the other means I buy groceries and pay bills. I also know that we all have our own ideas as well as Skill level and desired finish. I also have to stand behind my work so it often adds to how things are done. Nobody wants to pay for shit work they could have done themselves. Metal finish is always the angle I head for and I never even spray primer on my work. I'm not a Body and Paint shop so I don't pretend to be. Make that, "I wasn't" being I'm fully retired now and no longer for hire.
I've already said I don't do Sand Blast, I stand by that and in this case can see It would cause way more work than is there now. That said to do a real repair both sides of the panel needs to be totally clean.
The J-B weld treatment isn't much different than any other Epoxy kind of Band-aid. I probably wouldn't go there myself.
To start with I get my metal clean on both sides no matter who's job it is. I like Scotch bright and have an Old Soux buffer that turns real slow and a foam backer pad that takes an 8" velcro on disc. I generally use the Red because it strips and polishes at the same time, no real tooth to the finish. A lot of info on scotch bright is negative but that's because most tools spin it to fast and it melts, slow is the way to go here. Next would be to assess what holes I'm actually going to fix and what ones I'm not even going to touch. This would be on the job for myself. The Customer job wouldn't have the option of not repairing them all.
What did I just say? Not fix them all? Yes, the body has bolt holes all over it, what's the difference? If you can't see it and it's not structural, why? I would for sure take a chain saw file and take the tapered edge off and square it. I
would not use an air tool with a rotary file, you'll take off way to much metal that way. Prime and paint it won't go much further. Remember, it's behind the Trim, you can't see it. No different than bolt holes that hold the fenders on just no bolts in them. The ones I choose to weld up I would still file the opening edge to square them off. It welds much better in that it don't instantly start burning the edge away. Next make a form fitting patch for behind (yes I said that) and larger than the hole. Next use my Whitney punch and make holes to plug weld through from the inside to hold in place. Next I'd tig the full perimeter of the rust out hole to the patch. File the weld and move on the next one. To me this is Not a Mig Weld project. They just add way to much wire and that means weld pull and waffles up the sides. You can't work both sides of the panels by yourself so don't create the issue.
So understand I don't think or work like a lot of you guys and I'm not telling anyone you can't do it your way. If you notice I wrote this all in first person and not at all giving advice. If you haven't actually done it don't start Chipping your Teeth about how Knutz I am. If you have actually addressed an issue like this differently and it worked out well just post it up so we all can see that my way isn't the only way and I'll give you Kutoez and just maybe learn a different way to do the job.
Both of my Fingers are tired now so I'll just stop typing.

 

PNB, everything you say about other holes in the body is true, and the fact that the stainless will cover the pitted areas is all true too. I just feel the need to seal the holes as water obviously runs behind the stainless. I don't want water entering the inside of the car. The rust holes aren't going to affect the structural integrity of the car. It's not like it is going to cave in on itself. I think my way forward with this is to clean up the rust as best I can with my SCT tool with the fiber/wire wheel, use a rust encapsulator of some kind, and then seal the holes with JB Weld. I have already begun a test to see how I like this approach.

I'm going to end this thread as it was originally opened to explore the possibility of using lead over treated metal, which isnt going to work. I tried it on a piece of crappy floorboard that I cut out and no dice on getting the piece to tin. I prepped the test piece by first wire brushing all the rust I could, then treated it with phosphoric acid overnight, and then attempted to tin it this morning and it pretty much gave me the middle finger!

I will rejoin my regularly scheduled posts on the build thread.

Thank you to everyone that has given input here!

 

I've been thinking about this, as a couple others have mentioned a tig would be ideal for welding up the holes. Recently I've had good luck with using a tig and silicone bronze rod to build up pitted or pinholed non structural areas, the silicone bronze rod flows really well with low heat, so their is minimal risk of blowing through or making the hole larger.
I still stand by my belief that there is no substitute for quality metalwork. Based on the pictures and past experience some of the damaged areas should have new metal replacements welded in...however I understand not everyone has the time, resources or desire to do a tedious repair on a hidden area. Attempting to rush through complicated panel replacement can quickly cause more damage.
Heres a quick and dirty sketchy used car method that I dont endorse.
1. Por15 both sides of the metal
2. Pack holes and pits with fibreglass shorthair
3. Sand outside to perfection
4.Apply another coat of por15 to inside, followed by paintable undercoating/rockguard
5. Prime sand and paint
6. Drive and enjoy car
7. Repeat process every 1 to 5 years.

Jb weld/shorthair ect are bandaids, if your gonna go the quicky hack route then at least use a product like shorthair thats easy to work with and designed for automotive use instead of some wild concoction of miracle products from the hardware store.
Whatever direction you choose I wish you the best of luck with your project.

 

How easily does the silicone bronze rod grind and sand? I would imagine much easier than MIG wire. One of my aversions to trying to MIG the holes is 2 fold. The first being what DIYGUY and PNB mentioned, regarding that this is not a MIG job due to too much wire and too much heat. The other is having to grind the MIG wire, as this area is already thin and compromised. It's not unreasonable to think grinding hard MIG wire could leave some undesirable results.

I have a TIG machine, but am not real proficient with it yet. I may get some silicone bronze rod and give that a try. Here are some pictures of the inside and outside of the affected area after I somewhat aggressively got after the beltline with the wire wheel. As you can see, there is some bracing in the way that will have to be cut out to prep the inside for TIG welding. It is what it is, having to remove the bracing. It can weld back in easily.

I really appreciate the input and suggestions!

 

You know why they used lead and gas welding back then? It's all they had lol...

 

Hold back on the hate, it's Christmas time

 

It grinds much easier than a mig weld. I agree that trying to mig up those holes would create quite a mess, even if you did manage to close them up all the grinding required would just introduce more heat and further compromise whats left of the metal. I also found that the silicone bronze is more forgiving when tig welding metal that can't be cleaned 100% from the backside, although I should mention it has almost no strength in a structural or butt welded seam.

 

Maybe I should clear up what I think I'm reading as well as what I said and actually meant. As to the silicone rod. If you are thinking of filling the hole with it, with or without any kind of a backer that is a direction I would not go myself. No matter what the fill material is it's going to shrink as it cools. There is your first new problem.
Were I to tig weld a patch in from behind I would have it plug welded in place and tight to the open pit hole. Then using .065 tungston and a 3/8" cup along with er7 mig wire of .030 dia I would just weld the edge of the rust hole to the patch and not try to fill the total hole up to metal finish level, pretty much just doing a fusion weld and as little fill wire as possible doing multiple spots around each hole. Yes it's a very slow process. Good prep work and some practice on something else would be some good advice. I have actually done this process at times with good results.