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Using a locomotive wheel style coupling rod to offset the steering column?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oldandnew, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Put the steering column and wheel in there.
    Now how does that work ? Or are we talking 3/8 turn from center to lock for a steering ratio?
     
  2. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,278

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    That would be the steering column on the right, supported by bearings at both ends, and the wheel goes on where it says steering wheel.
     
  3. mike in tucson
    Joined: Aug 11, 2005
    Posts: 485

    mike in tucson
    Member
    from Tucson

    WOuldnt the input and output torque curve be a sine wave on a locomotive link?
     
  4. Anybody ever hear of a guy by the name of Rube Goldberg, maybe we could incorporate some Vice-Grips with this monstrosity! Maybe you could use crankshafts from a couple of Briggs and Stratton twins. How about using a crank with 3 throws and incorporating a piston and cylinder from a Briggs and Stratton and calling it power steering?

    Edit I just had a better idea! You're going to have a straight axle, right? Just hook up 2 ropes to it!
     
  5. Some how some way, the rod is going to "two block" itself on one if those center mounted objects , steering wheel or steering shaft. Right now I don't see the rods being able to pass over the center of circles.

    Give me a good side view, with the bearing the bearing attachment, the step in the rod to clear the bearing and the same for the other wheel. I see maybe 7-8" from the face of one wheel to the back side of the other.

    I don't know but I can't see it working without being a 2000.00 solution for a 20.00 problem
     
  6. ronnieroadster
    Joined: Sep 9, 2004
    Posts: 727

    ronnieroadster
    Member

    Dont do it take your time and do it right.
     
  7. captainjunk#2
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,339

    captainjunk#2
    Member

    that would be scary as H* L L I wouldn't want it
     
  8. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,200

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Heard NSRA won't give a safety certificate with chain steering.


    Ago
     
  9. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 374

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

  10. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 374

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

  11. One must remember that the NSRA must be very conservative with their rules because of liability. I'm surprised that they haven't gotten sued into oblivion because of their safety certifications.
    The best solution is to engineer the car in such a way that no more than 2 U-jounts and 2 shafts will get you from steering wheel to steering box shaft.
    In our quest to get "outside the box" we sometimes thumb our noses at good engineering. In this situation using cranks and connecting rods is probably the poorest method of transferring motion from one shaft to another with the possible exception of friction wheels.
    Let's all go find a different subject to beat to death!
     
  12. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 374

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

    Why don't you have the room ? Lets see photos or forget it and delete this thread.

    Toxic Waste
     
  13. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,278

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    My computer drawing skill are lacking, obviously. As someone mentioned, just think of a Model A crankshaft with just two journals, the rod journals 90 degrees out of phase from each other. No center bearing, no 'wheels'. Just a bearing at each end.

    [​IMG]

    Same thing for the other side that runs to the steering box. The two rods would need only be 1/2' thick at most, I would think the whole thing could be put in a case not more than 2 inches thick, similar to the chain drive ones.

    It's actually doesn't seem that "rube goldberg" to me, only four moving parts and two of those are the steering shafts. However, I'm no engineer, there could be a darn good reason nobody does it!
     
  14. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Any idea that doesnt manage to incorporate vise grips at some point isnt worth bothering with...:D
     
  15. Having been a machinist for the past 30 years and built one off oddball stuff, I see hundreds of dollars in machining to make a housing that holds everything precisely so you can adjust out all slop, plus you have to use bearings that have "0" clearance. Clearances of Model A bearing will be too sloppy, you will need a set-up with motorcycle crank roller bearings. There is a reason why we pay big bucks for Borgeson U-joints rather than cheap pin & block U-joints, any slop in the system is multiplied by the diameter of your steering wheel.
    I would like for you to build one and tell us how it works and how the cost compares to a roller chain set-up that I could build for about $50
     
  16. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

  17. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,278

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Fat chance, I have other things to do. I never said it was any improvement in cost or operation over a chain, 31 Vicky asked for conceptual form and that's what I provided.

    The Steer Clear chain units are $600-$700 btw. If you make them for $50 you should be in business!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  18. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,591

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very logical explanation of why not to use the loco method idea. Keep you nose between the ditches etc.

     
  19. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,891

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    This pretty much does the job.

    Related is the triple-eccentric cam drive used on NSU motorcycle engines:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. go-twichy
    Joined: Jul 22, 2010
    Posts: 1,652

    go-twichy
    BANNED

    I didn't read all this but is steer-clear or whatever they're called still a round?
     
  21. Spoon fed link in post 39
     
  22. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Thanks Ned, that is the motorcycle I was thinking of. Notice that the eccentric drive does rotate in complete circles. The eccentrics are not 180 apart.

    There are only 2 drivers, the 3d rod is a distance piece to keep the bearing a constant distance apart in spite of heat expansion.

    Bentley dealt with the expansion problem with stacks of washers. They were bolted together loosely and oil took up the spaces in between while allowing the rod to grow longer or shorter as necessary.

    You wouldn't need any expansion compensation in a steering box.

    I still think it would be best to design a proper steering mechanism, second best would be chain, 3d best would be a 3 gear drive, eccentrics would come last.
     
  23. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,896

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

  24. Ford tractors had twin steering arms in the 40s so I guess we should call it traditional. LOL
    They didn't use the bell cranks, but the principle is similar. Ever try to get a 9N Ford steering lined up after a few years being beaten to death in the fields.
     
  25. oldandnew
    Joined: Nov 15, 2012
    Posts: 16

    oldandnew
    Member
    from FL

    Is there a limit on how many universal joints a steering may have?

    Would they approve a system with two angled gearboxes to offset it away from the engine?
     
  26. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If you use more than 2 U joints you need a reaction point in other words, a bearing in the middle of the shaft that is mounted rigidly to the frame.
     
  27. Oilcan Harry
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 906

    Oilcan Harry
    Member
    from INDY

     

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