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UPS and Paypal warnings.... I hate em both

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by unclescooby, Mar 16, 2005.

  1. unclescooby
    Joined: Jul 5, 2004
    Posts: 4,805

    from indy

    I know we get a lot of crap about Ebay and Paypal but there is a new thing you all need to know about if you are doing anything with Paypal online. Plus UPS is now in the mix for me.

    I sold my Ford FE 6x2 intake on Ebay. It was a complete unit, rebuilt carbs, linkage etc... Beautiful. Shipped it UPS and it got damaged. No problem. Full insurance through UPS. That has been more than two months ago. No payment from UPS...still in "investigation phase". They can get a box from Indiana to Indonesia overnight but 60 plus days to look at a damaged package? Anyway, after about a week, the buyer decided he didn't want to wait for UPS to pay the claim so he filed a complaint with Paypal (how he paid me) saying that the product was misrepresented (it wasn' was just damaged). So before contacting me or anything, Paypal froze my account and all money in it. I only had about $846.00 in there and the claim is more than that. That has been over three weeks now and Paypal has no phone number...everything is E-mail. It is still in "arbitration" and no one has contacted either of us in weeks. I can't pay the guy, he's got the parts, UPS has paid nothing, Paypal has an additional $846 of my money and everyone is pissed. No resolution in sight.
    Forward to February 8. I sell HAMB'er Slag Kustom a Magnuson twin 4-71 blower on Ebay. I individually wrap every piece using seven packages of bubble wrap, build a wooden crate, wire it to the base and take it to the UPS store. They have me fill out a form with the address and then read it back to me as they type it into the computer. Then they proceed to ship it to some chick named Latoya Mitchell in Florida instead of David in New Jersey. A few days later, I get a PM from Slag saying he hasn't recived the blower. I check the tracking and see that some random chick has had this thing for days. I call UPS screaming and they "no sweat, we'll pick it up, REPACKAGE it if neccessary, and send it to the right place and refund your shipping". They pick it up, don't repackage it and then contact Slag saying both boxes have been damaged in shipping. No problem, full insurance through UPS. They sent it to the wrong place, admit it, picked it up and damaged it and admit that. That has been over six weeks. Still no resolution from UPS. The store now is trying to claim that the damage is a result of poor packaging on my end when it was shipped to Florida and that it might not be covered by insurance. There was no claim in Florida and no comment from UPS when THEY picked it up and it had been opened and unwrapped. Then UPS told Slag that he should pursue his money back from me through PAYPAL. I of course don't have the money sixty days later and my account is now frozen from this other UPS fiasco that was also fully insured by UPS two months ago.
    So I called my ex-college roomate who is now the Prosecutor here and he gave me several the BBB, the local news action team, and my new attorney. I told UPS today that I am doing all those things if I don't have resolution today. Such bullshit. What good is insurance from UPS?

    On top of this, I still have the deal going with ex-Hamber 1evil51 that took my cadillac 6x2 and carbs in trade, never sent his stuff, and never has returned mine. Two months ago also and another $600 and lots of empty promises so far.

    Then I tried to help everyone out with Metalflake paint on here this week, got a huge reply for much more than I have and contacted the manufacturer who told me they would try to help us out and get me a price on Monday. No response for the last three days despite repeated requests. That is something that I was not trying to make ANY money on, just help out the manufacturer and get us all a deal. It makes me feel like an ass for trying to do a favor.

    It takes all the fun out of this when you deal with people with no honor and no sense of responsibility. Plus, I am out about $7000 worth of parts right now, PLUS $846 of the money that people paid me. I am not rich and don't have that kind of money. I sell stuff to pay for other stuff. Now I've got no money and nothing left to sell other than the cars in the classifieds. More importantly, I never did anything wrong. I shipped what I was supposed to ship in the condition it was supposed to be in, and fully insured it all!
    Slag has been patiently waiting for six weeks and is out parts and money too and I am powerless to help him other than getting an attorney like I did today...which is even more money unless UPS does what they are supposed to do. I've got full documentation for everything but no money. I'm trying to remember why I like this hobby?

    The point of this rambling is that I've learned that UPS is worthless when they damage something. The insurance is a complete JOKE. Don't take Paypal payment from anybody for anything because all they have to do is say "item not as described" ,whether it is true or not, and Paypal will zap the money right back out of your account before you know about it and hold it indefinitely while it's in "arbitration" with no human contact. This is a huge scam waiting to happen as soon as people figure it out. My advise....Take money orders only and use the US Mail who actually pays their claims. My two cents.

    I'm sorry to Slag Kustom who is very cool and I'm very bummed that that awesome blower setup won't be on your cool truck. I'm doing everything I can to help you. Everybody else be warned. I had no trouble with anyone in 17 years of doing this stuff and now all this at once. There are still lots of good people doing car stuff but it doesn't take much to get fucked hard.

    I have been stressed out of my mind trying to get resolution for Slag and the guy that bought my 6x2 for the last 6-8 weeks and in trying to deal with 1Evil51 for 8 weeks. Now the paint thing. I freak out easy and get frustrated quickly. I needed to vent and I'm trying to spare everyone else from the same with those PAYPAL and UPS insurance scams.
  2. Gasserfreak
    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,333

    from Yuma, AZ

    WOW Man, Thats a bunch of bullshit. I hope everything works out for you and everyone else in the end. After ATT fucked me over I don't trust any large corp. anymore. The way I see it they get rich ripping the consumer off.
  3. lownrusty
    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
    Posts: 623


    Remember paypal is owned by Ebay and That should tell you sumthin!
  4. Johnny Ace
    Joined: Jul 20, 2002
    Posts: 2,202

    Johnny Ace

    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Fifty5C-Gas
    Joined: Sep 1, 2003
    Posts: 1,429


    WOW, thats a shame, im real sorry to hear this. I thankfully have never had this problem with Ebay, UPS, or PayPal. Damn, and im also pissed that i woulnt see that blower set-up on Slags pick-up, that woulda looked awsome.
  6. Fraz
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 1,818

    from Dixon, MO

    It royally stinks to see you in such a predicament. However I am not surprised at the large companies response to you, aka "We'll get to it when we get to it. Oh, you actually want us to do something about us getting you back what you deserve? Line forms to the right."

    I seriously hope that now you have the law involved they'll finally get off their rear and get things straightened out.

    FedEx works well for me. I've dealt with them for shipping for a while, seem pretty good. No damaged packages yet after 8 years.

    USPS is even worse when it comes to the insurance deal. They want 90-120 days to "resolve" the situation. I lost $$$ through them via a bad computer part return. They lost package, I never got paid for the insurance on it. So even the post office is in on it.
  7. danzee
    Joined: Jan 19, 2005
    Posts: 56

    from ERIE,PA.

    Like I didn't have enough other stuff to worry about! Thanks for the warnings about PAYPAL & UPS . I'm a real rookie & have only recently started dealing with these systems . It seems like less & less sellers are using PAYPAL, so maybe your not the only one having problems with them .
    The only problem I see with sellers only accepting money orders/cashiers checks is the time thing . You have to go purchase the payment-mail it -then sit around & wait for the seller to let you know what's happening .
    I myself, haven't had a problem yet & I guess I'll have to cross my fingers that I won't! Thanks for the info . DANZEE
  8. HoldFast
    Joined: Jan 24, 2005
    Posts: 819


    That's bullcrap.

    I haven't had any problems with paypal yet but I hate UPS.

    So far I've gotten a busted headlight, a fender bent nearly in half and a chin spoiler for my old car bent and cracked. On top of that they lost a cd player and some speakers. I have had nothing but problems with them.

    I just had a rant on my "tuner" car page about this yesterday. But it was FedEx for me. Never had a single problem with them and I've probably shipped with them 500 times between work and personal. But they lost my $700 exhaust system yesterday.

    It's crap. The problem is...we have to pay for insurance seperate. If they auto insured every package up to a certain $ amount I guaranteed you'd see a lot less packages "disapearing" or getting damaged. I have a couple friends that work(ed) for UPS and they tell me that they'd have guys that could see how far they could toss stuff. Guys get lazy and don't secure stuff in the trucks so stuff falls over onto other stuff. It's bullcrap. They have us by the balls and they know it so they do whatever the hell they want.

    As far as paypal goes..this online stuff always freaks me out. I just sent a check to Ryan for that very reason. I've never heard of them screwing people over but it definately sounds like that's what's happening. You need to get through to a management person and get this figured out. It's complete bullcrap what they're doing.

    If you're still on good terms with the buyer maybe you guys can work together on it.
  9. BigDdy31
    Joined: Jul 31, 2002
    Posts: 1,006


    I'm with Johnny and Scooby on this one. I have had trouble with both UPS and ESPECIALLY eBay.

    I was selling a server for a few hundred bucks when the guy that won it must have decided that he couldn't afford it. So in his process of flaking, he noticed something that I forgot. That I had changed my shipping address when I moved from a suburb to Houston proper but that I had not changed my address in my original eBay registration. So he reported this to ebay without my knowledge and the next thing I know, my account was suspended without ebay ever asking me ONE question about it. I was able to take him to arbitration through their 'square deal' or whatever program and I won the case but he still wouldn't pay me and ebay wouldn't respond to my emails to reactivate my account. And like has been said before, NO PHONE NUMBER to talk to a real person to get it taken care of. Yahoo does this 'hide behind email only' thing, as does ebay and paypal.

    Shamefully, I still look on ebay for cool stuff that I need through my girlfriend's account but I haven't graced them with starting another account for myself so that they get any of my money and I have gone back to newspaper classifieds for selling any extra stuff that it not HAMB type material.

    I hate corporations for the very same reasons that GasserFreak alluded to. They claim to be the backbone of the 'american free enterprise system' but they have no honor and don't care who they hurt while lining their already full pockets. And yet we still let them pay to run out country however they like. Scary.

    Just think, one day our kids will 'pledge allegiance to Microsoft/eBay and to the republic, which it violates... ;)
  10. lucky_1974
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 1,061


    But I paid you and know problems... oh wait we didn't use paypal or any mailing service:D :D Did you get it to Roy yet?
  11. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,315

    Slag Kustom

    It seems ups has been fucking up alot. I got a package the other day with a big hole in it that had been retaped. I open the box and find a mercedes desile injection pump addressed to some one else inside my box with the parts i ordered.

    UPS will retape a box after they destroy it and loose half of its contents.

    uncle scooby has been trying to get this solved with me and been very good about the whole deal.

    checking your tracking # will tell you alot. when checking on the one blower box i saw that it was damaged and my ups guy told me he refused to try to deliver it to me. the next day said box shows up halfassed taped back together. I had to sign for it just to start the claim and see if the contents where fucked or missing.

    as of right now i have a $3,300 polished blower paper weight because of a huge ups fuck up that they admit to but have done nothing to resolve it!!!!!!!! :(
  12. curtiswyant
    Joined: Feb 6, 2005
    Posts: 461


    Ebay, Paypal, etc are only as good as the people that buy/sell on there. DHL and Fedex have consistently lower prices than UPS and better service. My question is why'd you go into the UPS store again after they fucked up your last shipment? :confused:
  13. unclescooby
    Joined: Jul 5, 2004
    Posts: 4,805

    from indy

    Yeah, you did it right. I can't find Roy though. I thought he worked at Honda but I heard from Randy that it's UPS but he's off with a leg injury or something? Do you have any contact info for him?
  14. Green Goblin
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 246

    Green Goblin


    This is the contact info from Paypal's website:

    PayPal Customer Service Agents are available to help you during the following times:

    4:00 AM PST to 10:00 PM PST Monday through Friday
    6:00 AM PST to 8:00 PM PST on Saturday and Sunday

    Call us at: 402-935-2050
  15. lucky_1974
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 1,061


    I thought I PM'd his number to you...I will do it again. Thanks.
  16. haring
    Joined: Aug 20, 2001
    Posts: 2,327


    I've had major problems with both USPS and UPS. I don't even feel like writing it all down, but it all scares me because we are at the mercy of these companies. When they do their job, great, but there is NO ACCOUNTABILTY when they screw up.

    I use FedEx for packages whenever possible.

    UncleScooby -- I'm really sorry to hear about your orwellian experience. I can feel the stress right through the computer screen! If you like british humor, watch "BRAZIL" and it may make you feel better. Think "1984" if done by Monte Python.
  17. Jobe
    Joined: Oct 19, 2004
    Posts: 1,249

    from Austin, Tx

    Sorry to hear of your troubles, I too have had bad dealing with UPS insurance claims...that is why I ship solely with Fedex now. When I was busy building my custom cruiser bikes I ended up having a few damaged in shipping. UPS was horrible and took over 3 months to rectify. I started shipping by fedex ground and only had one problem out of about 25 bikes I shipped with them. The problem was taken care of immediately without any problems.
    Plus Fedex ended up being cheaper and faster than brown.

    Good luck with your issues.

  18. plan9
    Joined: Jun 3, 2003
    Posts: 3,846


    good luck scoob, that is just fuckin terrible and unacceptable.

    i worked at UPS for a few yrs, the people loading trailers are a bunch of animals and can careless about the items inside.
  19. There is a reason that UPS sucks...they can't fire anyone...The teamsters have negotiated a sugar daddy deal with UPS and basically they can't fire anyone...they have to be caught stealing somthing to get written up and even then if it is less than 500 bucks they won't get fired....if they damage you product tough shit your fault. I watched the local UPS slug drop a box off the back of his truck clearly marked computer. he delivered it to the shop next door and they signed for it. I went over later in the day to talk shop and they were all pissed trying to deal with UPS cause their brand new computer was broke to shit. it looked like it had been in a bar fight with the Hells Angeles.

    I don't use UPS...Fed/Ex is way better they are not covered by the teamsters and if their guys fuck up they are fired...
  20. SnoDawg
    Joined: Jul 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,006


    Man I am sorry to hear about this. I try not to have anything shipped UP$ but for different reasons. UP$ Is Expen$ive here in Alaska. There is Ground but on smaller stuff the cost is not much different than Next day and you still have to wait about a week or two to get your package. On larger things The cost difference is quite a bit but it seems that UP$ ground is kept as a secret by UP$ and when I contact a seller I get the next day rate. Fed ex is the same way.
    BTW The FE intake is here and in great shape. But it did not come up by UP$.

  21. tikidiablo
    Joined: Nov 10, 2004
    Posts: 866

    from so cal

    UPS sucks for sure, but you have to stay on them. I carved up a 5ft tiki for a crazy guy in Boston. $900.00 tiki and UPS breaks it! This is a solid piece of wood remind you and these jerks break it and say it was due to improper packaging. Yeah, so the part that was broken off and the wood base that was part of the packaging was justt gone?... and they somehow threw away the missing parts.
    The guy that bought it vouched for me that it was packaged A+ and it was their fault. We got our $ back and the shipping charges as well. My wife got the $ back in less thatn a month. Good luck!
  22. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,315

    Slag Kustom

    talking with some one at UPS said to avoid UPS stores because they are privatly owned and fuck up much more .
  23. unclescooby
    Joined: Jul 5, 2004
    Posts: 4,805

    from indy

    The good news is the Green Goblin got me a phone number for paypal so I can talk to a human being. Seymour Paint stepped up today and is offering $1 per can discount to HAMB'ers and you can order direct with no minimum and they will ship it right to you. So now the real problem is back to UPS and the insurance that means nothing. I'm going full tits with the BBB, attorney, and news today. I have had enough. Since I've got the attorney anyway, I figure I'll go that route with 1evil51 if that isn't handled this week too. What I hate about this UPS crap is that they aren't just screwing me. Two guys counted on me to get cool parts and sent me the money. I sent them the parts and UPS ruined them...and is completely responsible. I want nothing more than to make it right for two guys who did nothing wrong and deserve immediate resolution and not only can I not help them, Paypal took my money to complicate things. It's one thing to screw me, it's another to screw the people who are counting on me. I'd love UPS and FEDEX corporate guys to see this thread.
  24. Green Goblin
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 246

    Green Goblin


    Please believe me when I say this, without having to go into a long explaination, but call the Attorney General's office of both your state and the state the package was shipped to. I did that once and (I can't believe I'm applauding the gov't) but Holy Schitt was the situation ever resolved almost immediately.


    Nobody like to get a call from the States Atty office.
  25. I feel for ya, man. I shipped a fender to a guy in some small town in Indiana last year. Our shipping guy biffed the address , and it got sent to the north end of town instead of the south side. Some gal signed for it, and sent it right back with the driver. UPS then lost the package, and I refunded the guy's payment. No more contact from UPS, then all of a sudden 2 months later my fender shows up here! No one at UPS could tell me where it came from. I reshipped it(no choice on carriers) and it got there in a day.

    Scooby, if you call your local UPS representative, ask for the number for the Atlanta office. Then, when you are talking to the people handling your dispute, mention the Atlanta office, and that they know what's going on there. I know it sounds goofy, but it's worth a try. That's their H.Q. office for that kind of stuff, and as soon as someone there hears about a dispute like this, things'll start happening. A co-worker used to work for the rolling turd trucks and according to him that's the best thing to do. We did it here once and got thinngs resolved sooner than usual.

  26. BigJim394
    Joined: Jan 21, 2002
    Posts: 742


    I had a problem with a lighted beer sign I sold on ebay and shipped via UPS at the UPS counter in a Staples Store. I had bubble wrapped the sign (it was small) and put it in a box surrounded by styrofoam that went inside another box with 2" thick styrofoam on all sides, but when it was delivered it looked like a forklift arm had been driven half way through both boxes (the guy who got the package sent me pictures). It took over 2 months, many emails, snail mails, phone calls, and finally written letters to the CEO of UPS and the head of their claims and legal departments before they finally sent a refund. Thank god I do not accept Paypal, as if the bidder had paid with Paypal and filed a claim, they would have locked my account. I rarely use UPS anymore and use FedEx mostly for larger packages.

    I was at a live collectibles/antiques auction last night and met 2 ebay sellers I know, who had their Paypal accounts locked in the last couple of weeks due to shipping/damage/insurance/paypal problems.

    That said, this has to be about the 5th time I have read on the HAMB about damage to a multi carb manifold with the carbs on it, damaged in shipping. Unless you build a wooden box for such a manifold, take the carbs and linkage off, bubble wrap the hell out of them and ship the carbs and the manifold in separate boxes. Most of the boxes I get delivered by UPS look like they were used as a soccer ball, with every corner and most seams all rounded off. The way they throw around boxes, I'm not surprised that a manifold with the carbs on it would get damaged, if it was only bubble wrapped in a cardboard box (even with many layers of bubble wrap).
  27. unclescooby
    Joined: Jul 5, 2004
    Posts: 4,805

    from indy

    I've got UPS corporate on the phone right now and have already talked to the BBB and Indiana Attorney General. thanks everyone....
  28. Satinblack
    Joined: Jan 1, 2004
    Posts: 970


    Sorry to hear this. I have had problems with USPS and FEDEX. My main problems were from others screwing me and yes some of which are on the HAMB, but thats another story I let go of quite some time ago.

    Yes the uinsurance thing is always a problem because they basically always say, well the packaging isnt sufficent. Its sucks but unfortunetly some of the stuff I got sent to me I could NOT argue. The packaging sucked! My only argue was that I have no control how someone packages the stuff I buy. And if it was that bad then they should have never picked up the package to begin with. Well that will never happenbecause they would probably never get any business. People really suck that send shit out in crap packaging, but expect there stuff to come packaged perfectly.

    I have never had a problem with paypal and actually am greatful that they do get the money asap. I had ordered some parts from someone that never sent them! I tried emailing them and everything, never got an answer till I pretended to be someone interested in one of there actions and wala they answered only to get an earful email back which they never answered! LOL

    Paypal investigated and got my money back. Now if your worried about YOUR money then take out all your money as you get it then they cant take it. That would keep it from happening to you.

    Yes! It is sad that there are so many good things in this world out there but like EVERYTHING, bad folks can ruin it, and theres not much you can do about it other then closing up shop which hurts all of us that are using the system properly.

    It all comes down to morals. and there are a ton of folks that have no morals nowdays. Thats why we get screwed and insurance goes up and yata yata yata, the list goes on.

    Anyway, hen I got money back from Fedex I basically just kept hounding on them and never stopped calling them they finally gave in! Yes it sucks that you have to spend all the time doing the work because of some other "a hole".

    If its any help, I always go by the motto what goes around comes around, and it ALWAYS does sooner or later :) Thats what the smile is for..
  29. HeX
    Joined: Sep 29, 2002
    Posts: 384


    This might help... found it by doing a google search.... I have used these numbers... I have had problems with Paypal as well..... GOOD LUCK...

    "PayPal official customer service number
    "in case of unauthorized transactions, payment problems, errors or questions about your account, you should notify PayPal immediately"
    PayPal toll free number
    (888) 221-1161
    "New" PayPal regular telephone number (Mountain View, CA Corporate Office)
    (650) 864-8000
    PayPal Nebraska Corporate Offices
    Other "known" PayPal phone numbers
    (402) 935-2000 / (402) 935-2001 / (402) 935-2062
    (402) 935-2258 [this is Craig, complaints resolution manager]
    (402) 935-7733 / (402) 537-5740 (fax) / (650) 251-1100 / (888) 221-1161 / (800) 836-1859 / (877) 672-9725 / (866) 272-9725
    (402) 935-2338 [Carrie, Paypal Security]
  30. HoldFast
    Joined: Jan 24, 2005
    Posts: 819


    well fingers crossed but in the last 15 minutes I've had people from PA, Sacramento and San Francisco all call me about my package.

    Supposedly it's in the truck on it's way here. Hopefully it's not bent in half. And hopefully it's not and empty box.

    I was looking at the tracking info...went out weighing 53 pounds. Last time scanned weighted 5. Weird.

    So fingers crossed.

    Same for you. Hopefully paypal does right by you guys.

    I freakin hate EBAY. I REFUSE to deal with it. if someone puts up a classified ad with links to ebay I ignore it. Or if it's interesting enough I contact them directly. if I decide to buy I have them pull the listing and sell to me directly.
    Ebay scares the crap out of me.

    Buddy of mine bought a car through it. Guy advertised it as a....I'm thinking Superbee...but it was some sort of rare mopar. So he paid for it. Got a decent deal on it. When the car showed up it was a clone. He paid probably 2x/3x more than it was worth. The guy flat out lied. He's been dealing with it ever since. Haven't talked to him for a while so maybe it's been resolved but it had been a couple months last I heard and nothing. Far as ebay was concerned he paid for a car and got a car.

    Stupid. The sad and very scary thing is that if there weren't so many ass hole thieveing greedy bastards in the world we wouldn't have to worry about all this.

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