Technical Uprated Headlamp Bulbs

I had the reflectors in my T Modified resilvered at considerable expense and asked the guy to convert them to a modern bulb - like an H4 or similar. He actually fitted an BA15s bulbholder :-( These bulbs are 21 watt maximum and are used typically in rear fog lamps. Not ideal for a set of headlamps to be used for driving in the UK.

Rather than cut it all off and start again, I found this 100w 12v LED bulbs. It has 20 LEDs - 4 facing front through a lense and 8 each facing sideways to the front and back of the reflector using a mirrored internal reflector. Cost was £5 per bulb. I will fit it and wire it up tomorrow and post some pictures.

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I replaced the bulbs in my O/T daily driver with LEDs (actually my past 3 dailys). IMO it's money well spent. Just make sure to take the time to adjust the headlights after installation so you're not blinding oncoming drivers.

 

100W is an obvious lie, that little critter would burn the LEDs from overheating at that much power.
LED lamps with multiple LEDs spread out usually don't work in reflector lights. They may give off alot of light, sure, but the spread out LEDs don't send the light at the proper angle to the reflector, meaning it won't leave the reflector at the correct angle either. Plenty of light, but not much off it ends up where you want and need it.

Please do post some pictures of how the light spreads on a white wall/door, both with a standard lamp and with one of these LEDs. I have my doubts, but it would be nice if it works well.

 

It'll still probably be better than a 21 watt incandescent bulb

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It’s 100 watt equivalent - so actually around 12 watt. It will certainly be better than a 21 watt incandescent.

I’m reliably informed that the design of the T lenses means that they were, and remain, weak in comparison to most any modern headlights

 

ive found they typically use 3 watt leds, so 20 of them would make it a 60 watt, mayyybe they used 5 watts but id be surprised, cob leds are the way to go if youre going to use leds, cob's still blow me away at what they can do

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Bad choice, for multiple reasons. First, as G-son points out, the optics will be poor as reflectors should be designed for the specific lamp in use. Second, and the big problem, is this lamp is single output. Since 1940, virtually all passenger headlights have been limited by law to 55W on low beam, 60W on high (at least in North America, and I'm pretty sure Europe is the same). The critical point is the low beams all feature a 'cut-off' to avoid blinding oncoming drivers. This lamp doesn't, so in effect you'll be driving with 'high beams' all the time. You could 'adjust' the lights down to prevent this, but this will shorten the light throw to the point that those 21W lamps may equal it in 'light on the road'...

 

The T reflector has lamp holders for two bulbs. One positioned centrally (I will use that for the LED as main beam). The other is positioned above that and I have 40w incandescent bulbs for that. I will wire that as dip. There is a third bulb holder for use as sidelight.

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The T headlamps did not have dual filament bulbs

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I'd mock all of it up and see what sort of light pattern you get before committing to it. With two or three bulbs mounted on the one reflector, that's going to disrupt the light pattern and you may not get what you think you're going to get...

While lamp output is important, optics play a larger role than you might think. When 4 light systems became legal in the US, the OEMs actually reduced the output on the high beams, from 55W down to 35W. The improvement came from better 'specialized' optics. Whatever issues the original optics had, a brighter lamp will just make those issues worse.

If the car has to pass any sort of safety inspection, it would suck to flunk the lighting part and have to start over...

 

No matter, moot point. No matter how bright you make them, you'll not be able to drive it at speed at night, they were never designed to shine any distance. My 36 ford pickup has commercial lights on it, adapted over to halogen bulbs, it still shines fifty feet in front of the truck on low beam. High beam is still fifty feet, but illuminates the whole surrounding countryside at fifty feet. I don't drive it at night, where I live there are lots of deer.

 

Take a look at the Bob Drake halogen reflector conversion for those lights. They are not inexpensive, but make quite a difference in night visibility.

Original poster might do the same. Not sure they have a size for the model T light buckets.

Phil

 

Exactly. 2CV headlamp internals fit inside the T bowls and I may well see if I can fit them behind clear glass. My other alternative is to see if I can tuck away some projector lamps - as I have done on my OT car.


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Okay, "watt equivalent". I really hate that kind of ratings, as it really says absolutely nothing. Doesn't say how much power it uses, doesn't say how much light it gives - just that someone, somewhere, says it's kind of equivalent to something else that used 100W.
Has anyone ever noticed that the less a product actually delivers, the more unclear the data on it becomes?

Better than 21W incandescent? Well... More light, almost for sure. If any of that light ends up where it's useful, I have bigger doubts.

Yes, I'm sure the model T headlights were rather basic, cheap and based on the demands & knowledge available over a century ago. But working with old "inferior" technology should be what most people on the HAMB likes, and just because something is old and works less good than more modern items that's not a reason to pair it up with other inferior (chinese low cost) technology to make it work even worse. Rather, it's a reason to find the best available upgrade to get the best possible performance out of them.

 

The Bob Drake reflectors described above have a shape that is different from the original cone reflector. They are designed to be utilized with the halogen bulb and socket included.

Phil

 

I'd like to see the end result. The wattage argument is NEVER conclusive, it must live on. There's a law...

 

Good advice but there's no way to make them work better and I'd rather have them brighter and seen than not. I can replace the T lamps with Lucas King Bees but prefer the look of the T items. As for making old stuff work... there's no cheque book rodding over here mate... I make it or find a local machine shop to make it to my spec or adapt something from another source. Speedway Motors don't have a UK branch

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I'm all in favor of home-built parts, but only if you have the necessary expertise to carry it off. If you understand optics, go for it by all means.

A brighter lamp will no doubt translate into you being more easily 'seen', but doesn't insure that you'll be able to 'see' more....

 

Please post pictures of the light output. I'm curious.

 

I've got the complete bob drake setup on my 36, but the lenses don't diffuse the light properly, and were never made for that purpose. They are plenty bright, and can be seen big time, but gotta watch closely for deer.

 

I live in the industrial North West of England so won't need to be worrying about deer

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I have a pair of chrome Cibie Oscar driving lamps that I will fit as auxiliary lighting if the experiment with the high output LEDs fails.

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This is exactly the point I've been making. The T lenses just can't be made to provide a good light pattern so you might as well make them brighter and more visible. I think the solution might end up as either replacing them with reproduction King Bees using modern lenses and reflectors or fitting driving lamps.

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Here's the setup as it stands. I'm reluctant to replace the headlamps as they are original to the car. I have one fog light and I could add a halogen driving light to but then I might need to go to an alternator rather than a generator.

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They're fine and will work for most of what you want, just remember that 70 miles an hour in the dark ain't gonna happen, matter of fact, anything over 45 miles an hour on an unlit road ain't gonna happen. I try not to drive mine after dark unless following someone else.
By the way, front end setup looks good and should work well.

 

Thanks. Motorways (Freeways) are mostly lit here and in Europe. Suburban roads are also lit.

By the front end, do you mean suspension? It has a panhard rod made from a 2CV track rod.

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Yes

 

Posies spring, drilled heavy axle and F1 brakes.

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I use new factory type T headlight reflectors from Snyders with their halogen bulbs that fit the stock sockets. My T is 6 volt with alternator but my Model A's have 12 volt with stock reflectors and Snyders 12 volt halogens in stock sockets. $27 each for bulbs and they work VERY well.

Dave

 

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out but getting stuff over here from Snyder is very expensive. I spent almost $200 for two new headlamp trim rings.

Do Model A reflectors fit in T shells?


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No, I don't think "A" reflectors fit in "T" headlight buckets.

I bought new aftermarket Vintique brand Model A modern halogen reflector and bulb kits for my '31 Roadster pickup. Man was that a mistake! Those are the H3 or H4 or whatever type modern bulb that install from the rear of the reflector and clip in. They are very bright but you can NOT see a thing at night because they leave a big black hole right where you need to be looking! The reflector is too shallow for that really long bulb which leaves them unfocused. I had to tilt the lights way down to get to a usable portion of the beam to see at all, and that looks really stupid! Re silvered originals or proper depth replacement reflectors are the way to go. I ran stock type bulbs in a '29 Sedan with a 6 volt alternator and everyone thought I had halogens because they worked so well. They were just focused properly and the alternator kept the voltage up where it need to be.
BTW, Model T's used double filament bulbs except for magneto cars and those used single filament bulbs. Get the sockets and contacts for dual.

Dave