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Customs Upgrading Ball Joints (Moog --> Howe)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Aeroman, May 8, 2017.

  1. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
    Member

    Fellas, I plan to replace the standard TCI Mustang II Moog ball joints to Howe brand. Not only do they have high tensile strength, they also look cool. The upper ball joint was a direct swap however, the lower one is posing an issue. It's about 0.070" bigger on the OD and it doesn't fit into the tapered hole. I read about using a ball joint reamer, which I already ordered. My question is, how deep do I seat the ball joint tapered shaft into the tapered hole? I was planning on duplicating the same length dimension as the original Moog type but wanted to make sure I didn't go too far in. Thanks. 20170507_182854.jpg 20170507_192548.jpg 20170507_192603.jpg IMG_20170507_181622_513.jpg
     
  2. dave lewis
    Joined: Dec 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,348

    dave lewis
    Member

    Be very careful...
    You can very easily ream the spindle too deep.

    My rule of thumb.. after finding out the hard way ! Is to ream it just deep enough so the cotter pin hole in the B/J is just barely showing in the slot of the castle nut ( finger tight! )
    When you draw the B/J in tight with a wrench it will move up as it locks on the taper..

    Good luck..
    Pm or call if you have more questions..
    831 -262-7294

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,893

    alchemy
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    You do know there are many different degree of tapers used, right?
     
  4. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
    Member

    Yes, I just read about that. Hopefully it all mat he's up. Just need to remove a little bit of material.

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  5. Put a Dropped Axel in it and be done with those problems.
     
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  6. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
    Member

  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,580

    gimpyshotrods
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    Many MII setups use UPPER ball joints, in all 4 positions.
     
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  8. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
    Member

    You bring up a good point. I noticed that too on other people's set ups. I realized that the Howe lower ball joints are a bit thicker and thus stronger. So, that's another option of running similar ball joints all around

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  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,580

    gimpyshotrods
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    I may do this on a customer's truck that I need to go through. It has a MII setup, with hydraulics.

    Not feeling overly confident with the "balljoints of unknown foreign origin".
     
  10. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
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    That's the thing...I'm running hydraulics too! I've already busted a couple of ball joints by own doing. I over extended them. One of the hydraulic guru's advised me that Howe's are built tough.

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  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,893

    alchemy
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    Just because another ball joint is built tough, does that mean it has more range? Are you going to over extend it as well? Over extend means stretching past the built in stop, and I'd think a ball joint couldn't take that too many times.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,580

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    They won't. You can break a ball joint with one errant cycle.

    The system needs to be built with stops and straps to prevent over-extension.
     
  13. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,218

    Mr48chev
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    According to the specs on the Orielly page for Volare ball joints the
    Od on the uppers is 1.9 while the od on the lowers is 2.12
    Spending some time on the Howe site I don't find a straight replacement for a K719 Ball joint which would be a standard Volarie Lower. Studying it a bit one really has to know what he is after to be able to order from the as the descriptions are a bit vague in some respects reflecting the concept that their regular customers have it figured out and don't need a lot of explaination.
    The lowers you have look to have extended studs on the that are longer than the stock studs.
    Have you called and asked them about it? It may be nothing more than you assumed the part would fit and it actually isn't for that application.
     
  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,218

    Mr48chev
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    Yep, cylinders that are too long for the application coupled with pumps that put out extreme pressure and no stops or straps to retain the extension could pull the ball joints apart.
     
  15. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,768

    mgtstumpy
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    If the ball joint doesn't fit as designed I wouldn't be reaming the stub out to later find out that it wasn't necessary. Check the other ball joint you have in the same hole to be sure and measure it against the problem one in line with what Gimpy has stated.
     
  16. Pat Thompson
    Joined: Apr 29, 2012
    Posts: 186

    Pat Thompson
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    My experience with tapered reamers is you want a positive stop on the depth so as to not allow the reamer to suck into the material and go too deep. One oops and it is too late...
     
  17. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,976

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    I'd do it in a mill if you can. Clamp down the spindle. Bring your spindle up to speed, introduce some coolant and bring her down easy. Check periodically for fit. Pat reminds us of a good point; reamers are sharp and love to bite and get out of hand real quick.
    I'd be more concerned about why you're breaking ball joints/design of your system.
     
  18. hotrod428
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 275

    hotrod428
    Member

    The Howe joints are probably for made for stock cars, they more than likely sell a reamer to fit them.
     
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  19. Aeroman
    Joined: Apr 19, 2005
    Posts: 678

    Aeroman
    Member

    Thanks for the reply. I looked it up and they do indeed sell their reamer

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