Knuck, you're right about that being a nice engine............I suppose it has to be one of the following........Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Chrysler, Packard, Studebaker, Hudson, Lycoming............in the early 1970's there was a place in Melbourne, Australia..Nicks Motor Wreckers who imported US speed parts etc and I called in one day......leaning up against the open roller door was a pair of straight 8 finned heads each about 3 foot long or so it seemed.......didn't bother to ask what they were for but are the only ones I've ever seen here in Oz..........would be nice to think that they are doing duty on an engine now.............andyd
Was it doing to be a smaller version of the TS3? I remember seeing a VW beetle engined Morris Minor, plus theres a few subaru engines Minors so theres probably enough width. A mate just sent me this piccy of a cutaway Commer Knocker.
1/2 a VW aircooled flat 4 for aircraft use. 7 cylinder radial engine made from old aircooled VW engine parts. Making of video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=SyRJeZ6s8uM
I have no idea what this early engine was designed for but the engineering looks so cool. Any guess what it is?
It is a 1908 Aries. I posted on that engine in another HAMB thread (Supercharged Grand Prix Cars 1924-1939). " As to my point that we continue to uncover more history (and some is already gone like the wind), a few years ago this engine pictured below showed up at an auction of an auction group called Yesterdays that auctions motorcycles and related parts. (credit Yesterdays on the photos). This engine was put up for auction and sold. It may never run as it is missing a few parts but it is quite interesting as it is an Aries desmodromic engine from 1908. The description for the auction was as follows: Ariès Single cylindercyclecar racing engine 1908 100x180mm Water-cooled Capacity ca 1413 cc l Double ignition, 2 contact points 4 Spark plugs Overhead camshaft Desmodromic 4-valve Pré compressed mixture entering via rotating sleeve valve Height is approx. 84 cm For those not all together familiar with desmo setups, in a conventional engine the valves generally have a valve spring that closes by the pressure of the spring as the rocker rides on the camshaft lobe on the one end and the top of the valve on the spring side. In a desmo setup the valve is closed positively with levers and or a separate closing cam (or other mechanical means). That way you do not have to rely on a spring that may fail or float. That being said, some desmo setups add a light spring to aid in closing. The Peugeot and in some literature the Delage were given credit for the first desmodromic valve operation in a “modern” engine although I had believed there may have been others such as Michaux as he adopted in his 1914 SOHC GP Schneider. The Engine depicted by X38 is a twin cam with desmo operated valves two of the principles that made it quite successful. I have corresponded with Sebastien Faures and he sent me a copy of an article he co-wrote on the 1908 Aries which may very well be the first desmo setup for racing purposes. There also is some literature that goes back years before that with potential desmo setups. Another feature of the Aries racing engine was a supercharging effect which I found to be quite interesting. Supercharging was not new in the 20s racing cars but had been refined to an extent for their use during the era. During the Great War era (1914-1918) airplanes were being used in battle and supercharging was being studied for use in aero. I have an article in a file somewhere on supercharging and turbocharging for use by an engineer by the name of Sherbondy (I forget his first name momentarily). As to its use in racing I may have to do a bit more research before going out on a limb with statements that I cannot back up. The Aries “supercharging’ was described by Sebastien and his co-author (Henk Cloosterman) as follows. “… the desmodromic distribution was not the only outstanding feature of the Ariès engine. A supercharging system on a 1908 car is worth more than a few words. In the crankcase is a metal plug which fits precisely under the piston. In that plug one can see two milled cross-sections: one smaller arm for the connecting rod and one broader arm for the piston pin. When the piston goes down, the air under the piston is pressed into the small crankcase. This air is pushed further through timed holes and builds up a pressure higher than the atmospheric pressure when passing above the piston, where it can also be used for better scavenging. Compressing air in this way had already been patented six years before, by a certain Mr Lefebvre in July, 1902 (ref FR322897). But while the shape of the plug in the Ariès engine matches the patent perfectly, the scope of the latter was limited to two-stroke engines.” Excellent research indeed and some may consider rambling-but thought some may find it interesting." Here are a couple of other pictures.
LB, you are correct of course but it was many years after the Aries and other examples that started to be more prevalent in the early teens of the last century. Peugeot built some of the earliest examples of desmo setups on racing cars and some authors and historians give them too much credit IMO. Some give credit to Delage as well during the early to mid teens although I may give a bit more credit to Gratien Michaux for his adaptation to racing cars (which he probably played with in his mind, on paper and in his Voiturette racers he was building prior to 1913). Even though I am not really a bike guy I was a fan of Ducatti probably moreso to the great sound more than the desmo setup. A guy I worked with was a part of the Ducatti racing team and I remember him taking off work and loading up his bikes and taking off for long weekends. A whole bunch of overhead racing engines (both SOHC and DOHC) took advantage of positive closing valve setups from 1914 up till the present day.
I remember sseing pics of an unfinished VW-into-Minor swap. I looked for them on the Internet last week and couldn't find them. Subaru EJ into Minor is a problematic swap due to the location of the exhaust ports; Alfasud flat-four has the same problem although someone has done that one in a van. Width as such isn't a problem in any of those cases.
Loudbang : Do you have any more pictures &/or details on that "Pop Green" engine? Sure would be appreciated!
It might be called a Pop Green by the Speedway Motors Museum but it started out as a Gallivan. The Gallivan head and cam drive tower originated in Illinois and it used the Model T block but only a few were cast before the patterns were sold. More castings were made and that might be where the engines named for others come in. Chicagoan Joe Lencki made patterns and cast his own 5 main block to use a Gallivan head at Indianapolis, and I think it was Joe Gemsa that might have used the Gallivan patterns the most. Gemsa may have made modifications to the head pattern over the years too.
I think Weslake got one thing right on all his head designs - The best length for intake runners on a race engine is: NONE
The Jalopy Journal
