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Projects Untame's '30 Ford project thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Untame, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    We recently bought 5 acres from my wife's uncle upon which we are building a house. This parcel of land had upon it a few pieces of Ford history that were quite exciting for the automotive archeologist in me: a '29 Model A, a '30 Model A, and a '25 Model T ton truck.

    My father-in-law has since laid claim to the '29 car and the '25 truck (whatever -- they didn't matter until I showed interest in them :rolleyes:), but he has let the '30 fall into my possession without (too much) objection.

    I've completely disassembled the '29 and the '30 (when I thought they were both mine). Neither had a body back from the doors -- probably scavanged ages ago by guys like you. I do have a pair of '30 doors. I was planning on building out the '29 as a traditional roadster, but now that I've only got a '30 to work with I'm thinking coupe -- the '30 just looks better as a mildly chopped coupe or tudor. However, I reserve the right to change my mind as the build takes shape.

    It just so happens that I've also got a scrap John Deere Model 30 combine, the sheet metal of which looks remarkably like a turtle deck. I'm planning on narrowing and contouring the combine metal to the dimensions of a '30 ford rear section and using it "as is" -- John Deere logo and all right on the trunk lid. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to build out the rest of the coupe roof, but there might be enough other sheet metal on that combine to keep the same patina.

    I was able to find in the woods a complete profile of a 5-window coupe that included the entire driver's side quarter panel all the way up to where the roof connects to the windshield frame. I'm going to use this as my template. I also have a complete sub-frame (? - the rails that go between the body and the frame) to use for my other dimensions.

    I have a '69 302 Ford small block w/4v intake and Holley 1850 that I'm going to use to power it. I also have a T6 tranny and 9" posi rear end to put behind it. I want to sling it low, but I'm not using a drop axle. I'll channel the body to the bottom of the frame. I've also removed the front cross member, and I'm going to install it upside-down to gain 2.5" of drop. Throw in a reverse eye low spring for another 2", and I'm down where I want to be.

    I'm planning on building this hot rod "for free." My definition of "free" is that I can't spend any "new" money on it -- only money I get from parting out the pieces I'm not using. Combine this with the salvage parts available to me, and I don't think you can get any more "traditional" in the original spirit of hot-rodding.

    Here are some pictures of the Fords as I found them, and after I retrieved them from the woods. Later this week I will try to get some pictures of the frame as it stands and the parts I'm reconditioning.

    Feel free to subscribe to this thread, but don't expect to see anything too cool for a while -- I'm just getting started. I do hope to have the rod done by the end of the summer, and I'm going to need a lot of help and advice from you guys to get it done.

    Thanks -

    Untame
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  2. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Here are the parts I'm going to be selling. I've thought about reconditioning/restoring some of them in order to get top dollar. What are your thoughts?

    Complete rear axle assembly (wishbone, torque tube, collar, brake drums)
    Front bumper
    Front fenders (running boards, brackets available)
    Hood panels (all 4)
    Transmission (bell housing, levers and pedals)
    Front shocks (with arms)
    Battery tray
    Wheels (2 -- one is probably restorable)

    I have started to work on the shocks. It won't take much to restore them to full working (and good looking) condition -- but they might show some pitting on the mounting side. I've also thought about completely restoring the transmission to OEM specs. It looks like nice transmissions fetch a decent price.
     
  3. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,948

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    fordbarn.com to sell the extra parts. I'd like to see pics of the JD parts
     
  4. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I'll try to get some pictures of the combine (and other things) this weekend. Thanks for the tip on fordbarn.com.

    The fact that I'm using a combine for the back half makes me want to go with a roadster. The car has a great sun visor, though, and the '30 cowl/tank looks best with a hard top. I've played with the idea of keeping the sun visor and vertical windshield in a roadster body.

    The coupe also seems to make more sense for road trips where weather may become a factor. I could always make a removable hard top... that way I can take sunny day trips without the top and longer road trips with it.

    Untame
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011

  5. 55chevr
    Joined: Jul 12, 2008
    Posts: 985

    55chevr
    Member

    you dont really a car there ... a bunch of cowls on frames ... it will be tough to make a roadster out what you have ... look for a sport coupe or something in that line with a rotten cowl ...
     
  6. hasty
    Joined: Jul 5, 2009
    Posts: 1,411

    hasty
    Member

  7. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Sure there is a car. The only thing missing is the roof and rear portion of the body -- and they should be easy enough to make. I've got the combine for the back half, and I'll throw in a bus seat.
     
  8. big bad john
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 4,727

    big bad john
    Member

    ........Hope you keep us posted....this is going to be interesting....with a lot of time and I think money also.....Good luck...
     
  9. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Here is the John Deere Model 30 combine. I had to climb through crotch-deep snow and brush it off for the pictures. The ice on it covers up a well-patina'd John Deere logo in the center on the back.

    After the sheet metal cover is removed I will cut out a center portion for the trunk lid, split it in two, remove extra from the middle and fit it back together in the shape of a turtle deck. I'm not sure yet if I will have to cut off the sides and tighten the radius of the drop off in the back. I might leave it alone even if it isn't exactly like an A deck -- I like the idea of the back end of the rod looking just like a combine. I'm planning on leaving all of the access panels and the nuts and bolts.

    There is a lot of metal in this combine. I think there will be a lot of sheet metal for patching as well as tube and angle metal for structure. Maybe I'll run the big yellow wheels for effect. :D

    I have a hard time picturing what it would look like as a coupe. For this reason I'm really thinking roadster.

    Untame
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    BTW... the deck on that combine is about 1' too wide at the back.

    Untame
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  11. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I did some more trudging through the snow. Here is the donor vehicle for the engine/tranny. It is an early '80s Ford van with a 302 that was swapped into it. It last ran in 1999, and it was parked with a suspected valve problem.

    The 302 is supposedly from 1969. I also have an early 4v intake manifold from a 289 and a Holley 1850 carb (600 cfm) for it. When I go through the motor it is going to get a Comp Cam, but I probably won't do much else to it.

    The transmission is a T6. I know a T4 would be smaller/easier to fit, but the T6 is free, so it's in the budget. ;)

    The rear on this van is a Dana 60, but I've got another Econoline donor van with a 9" that I'm planning on robbing. It has gearing in the low 3's. From what I understand, the differential is offset on the vans because the motor is biased to the passenger side to make room for the driver's foot controls. I'm hoping that it will be a perfect fit if I trim only one side of the axle to center the differential. I also have a posi unit for it.

    Untame
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I took the front axle out of storage this afternoon. I'm going to split the bones and fit them with a threaded tie-rod end for easy adjustment. I haven't decided what I'm going to do for front brakes -- except that they will be hydraulic. From what I understand, if I get later hydraulic backing plates then I need to swap out spindles. Disc brakes would be ideal, but I'm trying to stick with the "free" idea. Brakes are real important, though, so I'm planning on getting it done right.

    What years backing plates and spindles should I look for?

    Untame
     
  13. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I found this article that says I can use 37-48 spindles: http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/f100_brakes_for_early_fords.php

    It recommend F100 backing plates, but it doesn't give the years. Can anyone clarify this?

    Untame
     
  14. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    This is the lovely work area I have available to me. It's unheated, so those wrenches are mighty cold.

    I started disassembling the '30 front axle and noticed that it was kinda' wavy. So I grabbed the '29 axle out of storage to take it apart. It, too, isn't perfectly straight. I'm wondering if that is just par for the course, or if I'm just starting with low grade junk. I'm sure it can't matter too much in the end.

    The front cross member is removed from the frame. I'm going to weld up some stress fractures then reinstall it upside-down to net about 2-2.5" of drop.

    I rescued part of a coupe body profile out of the woods, and this section of sub-rails was sticking out of the mud. I'm going to use it as a template.

    Untame
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I got the axle completely disassembled last night -- almost. I have one spring perch that will NOT come out. Any suggestions? At this point I have no hope of salvaging it.

    The axle isn't very straight. There are a couple bends in it -- one worse than the other. A guy I work with is a blacksmith, so I'm going to have him take a look. If it can't be straightened, then I'll just plan on adjusting it to get the wheels square.
     
  16. hotrodjeep
    Joined: Feb 3, 2009
    Posts: 867

    hotrodjeep
    Member
    from Tama, Iowa

    Go man Go.
    THe axle can be straightened, Its not hard to do. But it can be a challenge to do right.
    If you Blacksmith buddy doesn't want to tackle it try a Semi repair place, Since
    Semi's still use straight axles they should have some confidence in taking the bends out.

    Also from what I've read the F-1 truck spindles can be used with the model A Axle.
    Just find a 48-53? 1/2 ton Ford, grab the spinles and brakes then install them on the
    Mdl A axle, easy as pie.... from what I've read anyway.

    The bustle on the JD will look great on the Coupe/Roadster. If you do more of a Roadster
    type car you could use more of the JD sheet metal as solid doors and Quaters.
    If you choose you could just build it with out doors, or not.

    Just on word of caution, you are/will be walking a very fine line between
    Hot Rod and R*t R*d. Just be carful to use your skills in the right way.
    This has the potential to be an interesting project.

    Jeff
     
  17. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Thanks, Jeff! I appreciate your very positive feedback. It seems like negative comments are a bit more common around here.

    No doors! Hmmm... I could Z the rear, chop the front horns to set the frame and front axle on the same plane... then I could just step into a roadster. I do have doors, though.

    I know it's a "fine line." To me the rat rod crowd actually tries to be as obnoxious and irreverent (and dangerous) as possible in their design. I have the spirit of an original hot rodder -- make it fast, make it look good, but do it cheap. It just doesn't end up looking the same today because the available cheap parts are so slim. I'm working with what I have available to me.

    Untame
     
  18. big bad john
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 4,727

    big bad john
    Member

    .......Looks like your moving along really good.......P.M me if you are looking for special parts......Know a lot of people here in Wisconsin....keep up the great work.......Big Bad John
     
  19. 53mercury
    Joined: Dec 2, 2010
    Posts: 95

    53mercury
    Member

    Have to love the combine sheet metal. Looks like your starting an amazing career. Best of luck to ya. PS, I see your a Wisc. boy. I grew up in the Muskego, Big Bend area west of Milwaukee. Mike
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  20. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Born in Wisconsin and live there now. But I moved from Colorado just a couple years ago. We lived on the Front Range for 9 years. I used to hunt up your way -- near Kremmling.

    BTW... when I lived out there I had a '66 Merc Park Lane -- white with bright blue interior (410 motor). I loved the power back window.

    Untame
     
  21. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I got the spring perch removed. A lot of heat and long pipe to twist it free, then I drove it out with an air hammer. Tomorrow I'm taking the axle to my blacksmith friend to evaluate the straightening options. After it is straight I'm going to give it a reverse-electrolosis bath in a plastic stock tank in the basement (it doubles as a winter swimming pool for the kids). If the reverse-electrolosis process works well I will give it a try on many parts. I've been using vinegar to remove rust, but it gets a black crust on the top when it is saturated, and it is really hard on the hands and difficult to dispose of.
     
  22. please explain to me how you are going to flip the front crossmember to get you more drop
    tk
     
  23. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I've removed the front cross member. I was thinking about reinstalling it upside down (think flipping left to right). I've measure it both ways, and upside down moves the top of the spring up @ 2.5".

    I'm not sure I'm going with this plan yet. I've been considering moving the crossmember back behind the axle and chopping off the horns to allow the axle to be level with the frame. This way I can run my bones to the frame and keep the spring over the axle without changing the length of the wheel base. It will be like a suicide front end without the Ackerman problem or the weakened bones. I'll just have to build some sort of raised spring mount.

    In fact, I could find a way to bridge the axle and reattach the frame horns (shortened) to give the impression that they hadn't been chopped off... this could be part of the headlight brackets or a nerf bar... (thinking out loud)

    Untame
     
  24. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    A couple of guys I know around this area get a second short side axle and shorten the long tube to match the short axle. That makes for an inexpensive way to narrow the axle.
     
  25. 29sportcoupe
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 350

    29sportcoupe
    Member
    from arizona

    I like it, but I grew up in northern Iowa so I have always admired the lines of old equipment. Look forward to the transformation.
     
  26. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I met with a local tonight who has a '29 Tudor body in decent shape. He offered to give it to me in exchange for some sheet metal fabrication on the fenders for his '48 Dodge 3/4 scale semi project. This almost seems too good to pass up... it would definitely help me achieve a more traditional look and it would be no cash out of pocket (a major goal for my hot rod). The combine might have to wait for the next project (it's not going anywhere).

    I also found 53 F100 brake assemblies as well as the later Ford spindles / king pins to run them for $200 plus shipping. Is this a reasonable price?

    Untame
     

    Attached Files:

  27. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    BTW... my FIL would probably trade me his '29 cowl and windshield assembly for my '30 because he is restoring another '30 and might want it for parts. So I guess my hot rod might end up a '29 instead. To be honest, I prefer the early A style -- it has a grittier look.

    Untame
     
  28. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    I got the front axle straightened tonight. Just a little ingenuity with an 8 ton bottle jack and some heavy steel. It might have a slight twist in it, but all in all it lays quite flat on both sides.

    I need to find a new set of spring perches -- mine didn't come out nicely at all.
     
  29. hotrodjeep
    Joined: Feb 3, 2009
    Posts: 867

    hotrodjeep
    Member
    from Tama, Iowa

    200.00 seems alright if the brakes are re-built but if you could get him to
    throw in the shipping it would be better. I'd think for 200.00 you could go
    to the junkyard your self and get them. Since you don't need a specific
    year anything F1 from 48-56 should give you everything you need.

    If you end up getting that Sedan let me know, I've got a nice set of Doors.
    I'd like to see on a project and not in my Garage.

    Oh, and I might have set of spring perch's too. I'll check tonight.

    Jeff
     
  30. Untame
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Untame
    Member

    Thanks, Jeff -- I still need the spring perches.

    The $200 brakes and spindles are not rebuilt. Maybe it isn't worth the shipping. Around here (Wisconsin) I won't be able to get into a junkyard for several more months due to all of that "stiff rain" we have around here in the winter.

    I've read so many different things about the brakes. I thought it was only '53-'56 Ford trucks that were self-energizing. But just the other day someone said I should get a '66 brake set because they are also self-adjusting.

    Untame

    PS -- The body I'm getting has doors, but thanks anyway.
     

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