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Technical Universal / Rag joint head scratcher

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by AGELE55, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    I have been lugging around an old tilt wheel from a 70s? van for a few decades and am finally modifying it to fit into my 55 Chevy. I made some spiffy cuts and welds and it’s looking good. I’m running a modified 605 steering box. The new issue, is I can’t seem to locate a universal or rag joint to couple the two together.
    If I’m measuring and counting correctly, the column shaft is 3/4”-36 spline and the 605 is (I believe metric?) and measures about 11/16”- 30 spline.
    Anyone have a lead? Either a universal or rag joint will work.
     
  2. Check Speedway.I think they list specs on what they stock.
     
    AGELE55 likes this.
  3. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,582

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  4. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,681

    1934coupe
    Member

    Go directly to the source, contact Borgeson they have it all and made in America.

    Pat
     

  5. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Aha! Maybe I found something? I’m measuring the 605 input as 11/16”, but this chart says it’s actually 3/4”-30 spline. Borgeson and others carry one. I think I’m back in business. Thanks y’all.

    A8AC267D-A903-4F1F-8EB3-CCCBAED30707.jpeg
     
    harpo1313 likes this.
  6. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,213

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll step up an be the ass here, if only in an effort to try and prevent any subsequent readers getting the wrong idea. Coupler, universal joint and so called rag joint are not interchangeable terminology. More specifically, a rag joint should not be used to compensate for mislignment / turn corners. They're vibration reducers. Misalignment / corners require universal joints. Straight joins require inline joiners and cost much less (but a rag joint would work too, if required!). We now return to the scheduled programming.....

    Chris
     
  7. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 3,034

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great post. I couldn't have said it better. They are vibration dampers, not "flex joints". I've seen them often used in questionable "that's close enough" mis-alignment situations:eek:
     
  8. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 733

    nobby
    Member

    rag joint
    69-82 corvette
     
  9. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,582

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  10. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Pretty sure I’m dead on in alignment, so I think I can use any of the three...lol
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  11. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 733

    nobby
    Member

    Hello,
    If you have cut all the springemy things from the bottom of the column, you can't use a stock rag joint, as when the rubber fails, the lower inner with its two prongs springs out to lock into the flange on the box
     
  12. cfmvw
    Joined: Aug 24, 2015
    Posts: 798

    cfmvw
    Member

    Lee Manufacturing is another good source. They were pretty well versed with power steering box swaps and could make up a rag joint to fit the application. My uncle used one some years back when he put an '85 IROC Camaro steering box in his '69 Z/28 Camaro.
     
  13. Illustrious Hector
    Joined: Jun 15, 2020
    Posts: 149

    Illustrious Hector
    Member
    from Alberta

    WTF! is a springemy? even spell check is confused.
    "The brits may have invented the English language,
    but it took Americans to make it great! -- Richard Rawlings (apologies if I've misspelled his name)
     
  14. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    I found a rag joint with the correct combo of splines, but the diameter is too large and rubs the firewall....aaaaaarg. So now awaiting delivery of a Borgeson u-joint. Expensive little suckers. Rag joint was $36 to the door, and the u-joint is 75+$hipping. Wanna play? Gotta pay...lol
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  15. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,677

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Those tilt columns look real nice in the 55-6 Chevy. Have a couple stashed away. Want to put one in my 32
     
  16. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,112

    Joe H
    Member

    I helped a fellow with a '65 GTO, he needed some engine work so I took the car in. It didn't drive right when I moved it around. I found the rag joint pulled apart and the only thing steering the car was the two loose bolts through the rubber. He is a big guy and would pull himself out of the car using the steering wheel. He pulled so much the column was coming apart and rag joint was the only thing keeping it in place.
    I believe what nobby and his springy thing is talking about is the lower keeper in the column. If the rag joint breaks, the metal nubs on the rag joint flange still make contact with the gear box mounted flange, but if the lower keeper in the column is removed, the whole shaft pulls out the top loosing all control of the car.
     
  17. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    My neighbor is building a 57 Chevy truck on a C10 frame. The steering mod required three universals...BUT... he has a rag joint as one of them. It is not a straight connection and flexes pretty hard. Once again I’ll go an express my concern....lol.
     
  18. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 733

    nobby
    Member

    take a look at a grand cherokee steering gear box, and the stock joints
    its a humungous beast, but may look puny in a tri chevy
     
    AGELE55 likes this.
  19. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    I'm still struggling to get a fit here. I bought a Borgeson universal and it won't slip onto the gearbox....
    Do you know the spline counts and diameters for the vette rag joints? I can't find the specs anywhere..
    Thanks
     
  20. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 733

    nobby
    Member

    post up pics of your steering box

    i have an input worm from a vette
    and a late model saginaw 800
    both 30 spline 3/4'' for comparison
     
  21. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,305

    birdman1
    Member

    You all forgot the 1971 pinto flexible steering shaft.
     
  22. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    I am getting my butt whooped on this... It makes no sense. It should not be this damn difficult. I have a 605 steering box. It measures 3/4" for the input shaft. It has 30 splines (supposedly). There is a flat on the shaft so all teeth are not present. Everything I research says it is a 3/4"-30 spline shaft. I bought a Borgeson universal 3/4"x30 spline to 3/4"-36 spline. The 36 spline sides slips on my column easily. The 30 spline side WILL NO SLIDE ONTO THE BOX. I also have a 605 box going into the 39 Poncho. It won't fit that one either. Summit Racing says it should fit. Borgeson technical help says it should fit. It DOES NOT FIT. I returned it
    I found a rag joint with the right combination and it fits..BUT...the diameter is 3-3/8" and rides the firewall. I sent it back.
    They make 2-3/4" rag joints, but I cannot find one with the correct spline counts.
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggg.
    So why did the 30 spline rag joint fit but not the universal? No way Borgeson built a bad joint.
    Any help out there? Ideas? Suggestions? Offers to buy this headache?
     
  23. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 733

    nobby
    Member

    is it a 600?
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  24. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,201

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    800 or 605 I will check tomorrow to see what I have.
     
  25. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,201

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    You should have seen the damper at $99, the replacement fell apart in a year. No such thing as No Way.
     
  26. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,582

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    That was no accident!
     
  27. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    605 embossed right on the top.
     
  28. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Hmmmm.. I’ve been tempted to try a second universal. When all else fails, try again.
     
  29. When you tried the Borgeson joint, did you count the splines on it? Maybe it was a return item, and/or packaged wrong? You're right, they have a good product, so not likely buggered up, but....
     
    AGELE55 likes this.
  30. Illustrious Hector
    Joined: Jun 15, 2020
    Posts: 149

    Illustrious Hector
    Member
    from Alberta

    I was beginning to think all rejected/ damaged /returns were simply sold to Canada and overseas
     
    Alaska Jim, patterg2003 and AGELE55 like this.

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