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Technical Two questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 34Larry, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,343

    34Larry
    Member

    A while back there was quite a discussion about oil filters. Was there a consensus on what is the best or perhaps the top 3?

    What grade bolts are you using in your engine builds? Talking intake, motor mounts things like that, not internal demands . I never trust Lows or H. Depot, think it is all China crap. A new Ace here said they have American but I doubt that also. I know ARP bolts can be trusted, but don't want to order and wait, I'm in assembly now and over the week end. Mild steel (A-36) seems okay but grade 5 might be better I guess. I'm considering the torque stress and stretch and what the load is in different applications throughout the assembly. Grade 8 I don't think is needed, generally speaking. If you use Lock Tite where do you use it and which one ? An industrial supplier of all things is a short distance away and I figure on going there tomorrow. Looking for American made only.
    If you can help me, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,237

    Budget36
    Member

    Won't comment on the oil filter, but I always use Grade 8 bolts on everything I need. Might be over kill, but what the heck.
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,862

    squirrel
    Member

    Not Fram....most anything else will work.

    The bolts...I like to use original bolts if I can. If not available, I use whatever is appropriate for what I'm bolting together. So, it depends on what it is. Intake manifolds usually are ok with grade 5, from the hardware store. Motor mounts, depends on the design, but grade 8 from the hardware store, or grade 5 from a reputable supplier (McMaster is good, if pricey). Oil pan, covers, etc not too much to worry about, as long as they are at least grade 5.

    I use loctite on stuff that will cause problems if it gets loose, like cam gear, flywheel, and torque converter bolts.

    If it's a hot rod motor that needs some ARP main or rod cap bolts or studs, or head bolts or studs, it gets them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  4. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,138

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There is an implement dealer a few miles from me that sells Grade 5 and Grade 8 fastening hardware by the pound. I did a test buy, and discovered that their price was about 1/3 of the local ACE hardware store. I had a little extra cash so bought just over $200 worth of 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8 Grade 8 bolts, nuts, lock and flat washers.

    So I use Grade 8 on pretty much everything, since I have quite a stock of it. It's overkill for most stuff on the outside of an engine.
     

  5. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,666

    AHotRod
    Member

    Wix filters only for us and our customers.
    Grade 5 or 8 depending, internals ARP
     
  6. kabinenroller
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 519

    kabinenroller
    Member

    Wix filters have received good reviews, they also make private label filters for NAPA (gold)
     
  7. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,237

    Budget36
    Member

    That's what I do too.
     
  8. Wix when I do my own stuff
     
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  9. Well, for oil filters my personal favorites are (in no particular order) Wix, NAPA (made by Wix), and Motorcraft. Stay far, far away from Fram and 'house' brand filters.

    As to bolts, I'll assume you're talking about conventional hex-heads. By and large, grade five will be adequate pretty much anywhere. The off-roaders don't like grade eights as they tend to break rather than bend, so keep that in mind on critical assemblies like suspension. If you want some no-maintenance bling on non-critical bits, polished stainless works well but you should restrict these to low-load parts as they're rated less than a grade five; definitely pay attention to max torque specs so you don't break them. If the part requires torquing, make sure you can hit spec without exceeding the bolt rating.
     
  10. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,018

    Rex_A_Lott
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've used Wix, Napa gold, K and N, and even Fram(gasp), as long as it's the HP line. As most will agree stay away from the Fram on the shelf at Walmart, Auto Zone etc. I ve ran one called System 1 that you can take apart and clean and inspect. I liked for awhile, on a new motor, but it got to be time consuming and I went back to the throw away type.
    Loctite 242 is the threadlocker, for stuff you may take apart someday. They make other permanent ones. Their PST is a good sealer, for plumbing stuff.
    I'm like Squirrel on the bolts, the factory stuff is good enough unless you modified something and they won't fit. I do like to use new on the fan.
    Good luck.
     
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  11. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,421

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I like stainless on intakes. Remember to use antiseize! Other stuff I mostly use factory bolts and paint them.
    Wix or Motorcraft filters here, too. Used to use AC on GM products also, don't know who makes AC now, may be outsourced?
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,297

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    For what? For bolting on a fender, anything. For a trailer hitch at least grade 5 and I usually spend a few extra pennies for grade 8. For steering or brakes definitely grade 8. For head bolts the factory recommended ones, usually aftermarket, as some engines require weak head bolts but not too weak.
     
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  13. akoutlaw
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 828

    akoutlaw
    Member

    IMHO, I would not use Fram or Pennzoil oil filters unless my life absolutely depended on it, and then only until I could find another brand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  14. thintin
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 223

    thintin
    Member

    Wix......and grade 8 for almost everything if I can't find or use original stuff, ARP for rotating mass applications. There are some hinky fasteners available out there so ya gotta shop with care.
     
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  15. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,132

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    We run a System1 filter on our dirt midget with dry sump system. I’m pretty sure the filtration isn’t quite as good as far as microns goes as a spin on but the ease of cleaning and inspecting vs cutting a spin on works out well for us. I can see on a street car, the hassle to service vs just swapping out spin ons instead too.
     
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  16. Max Halstock
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 21

    Max Halstock
    Member
    from England

    Has anyone used an Oberg filter?
     
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  17. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,343

    34Larry
    Member

    Hey Steve nice to hear from you, thanks.
     
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  18. Terrible80
    Joined: Oct 1, 2010
    Posts: 778

    Terrible80
    Member

    What in anyone's personal experience is the problem with Fram? Just curious.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  19. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,343

    34Larry
    Member

    Didn't you read my post. OKAY I'll say it again. What grade bolts are you using in your engine builds
     
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  20. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,092

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Two subject questions in one post. Well, since oil filters have been discussed at length several times a year, I'll take fasteners for $500 Alex.

    Original if possible, then at least grade 5 for everything. I usually use grade 8 as it's only slightly more expensive.
    Used to buy in bulk by the pound from a Pomona Swap Meet vendor. He had a lot of high grade stuff including aircraft industry buyouts.
    I patronize local True Value as it's usually USA made and cheaper than Lowe's or Home Depot. Plus, I want to keep the local Mom & Pop in business. I can fix a leaky faucet cartridge with a 50 cent O ring from there, while the big box stores want to sell me a $125 faucet.
    Local hardware has deep discounts by the box too. Speaking of which, when Orchard supply went belly up awhile back, their hardware was 50% off, so I stocked up big time on boxes of 1/4 - 7/16 nuts, bolts, washers.

    I hate having to put a project on hold or leave for a hardware run, so I have a lot of fasteners on hand, well organized in trays.
     
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  21. WIX
    WIX
    WIX

    Just my 3.5 Cents

    Live Learn & Die a Fool
     
  22. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,862

    squirrel
    Member

    Take one apart, see what's inside...they are quite skimpy, small filter element, which tends to collapse, etc.
     
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  23. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,343

    34Larry
    Member

    Okay guys thanks a bunch. Wix and grade 5 it will be for me also. Would like to say more
    but am barely able to get around today because of extreme back and neck pain. I took out , root ball and all, 5 golden cedars[​IMG] about 5 feet tall and 5x 5 wide and long and Monday and this failing 1939 chassis hurts, so bad, even my hair, lol, its all I can do to sit at my computer and thank you.
    "F" getting old.
     
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  24. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,451

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I buy mostly grade 8 bolts at the local Tractor Supply store when I need something right away, and they do have Grade 5 which work for most things. They sell em by the lb. Other than that I have had good luck getting decent quality bolts in bulk from Ebay. You can purchase the ones that have a washer incorporated into the head and look a lot nicer, especially on body and frame assembly. You can even get them with serrations on the bolt heads and the nuts.I simply buy them cheap in bulk and fill a drawer with them. I don't have any complaints about the quality. You can also get specialty bolts like Hurricane bolts that you can't find locally. They have really large heads that can be used for sheetmetal. As for engine bolts, ARP if its important. You can stock a drawer with bulk buys for about what it costs to buy some bolts locally.......and you don't spend all day driving around trying to find them.


    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=serrated+bolts&_sacat=0
    Hurricane Bolts
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-50-Sta...416224?hash=item3d9405d8e0:g:OKsAAOSwxc9dapfg
     
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  25. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 718

    TrailerTrashToo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ditto, I have taken a Fram and 4 other brands oil filter apart, and confirm that the Fram construction is skimpy. About 25 years ago, all filters were a common application (PER-1, etc)

    Furthermore, most filters have a bypass (overpressure) valve that passes oil straight from the oil pump - this valve is located at the base (threaded end) of the filter. The Fram that I cut apart had the bypass valve at the top of the filter (and had a sketchy construction) - It bypassed oil from the dirty side of the filter (contents of the filter can).

    4 filters had a stamped metal end plate glued to the filter element. The Fram had a fiber board end plate clued to the filter element. The fiber end plate had a stamped hole, with the bypass valve stuck in it.

    I carefully cut the filter element out of all 5 filters and measured the filter area. Again, the Fram had significantly less filter area.

    The results were posted on the Binder Bulletin over 20 years ago - Unfortunately, both the Binder Bulletin and I have suffered computer crashes - the pictures and measurements are now lost.

    Russ
     
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  26. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 7,605

    5window
    Member

    I won't go near the filter question. Grainger has a huge selection of bolts-lists the standards their guaranteed to and many other parameters. If you belong to the Farm Bureau, you get a nice discount on everything and FREE shipping. FB is $75/year and saves me way more than that on a discount on my Nationwide Auto Insurance. Plus I like supporting our farmers. It might be strange for a left wing guy to support a conservative organization, but I call 'em like I see 'em. :)
     
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  27. eaglebeak
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,137

    eaglebeak
    Member

    Two questions......
    A guy walks in to a lawyers office.
    "How much do you charge to answer two questions?"
    Lawyer says..."Five hundred dollars,...what is your second question?"
     
  28. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 4,142

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    LocTite is a brand name, not just a red thread sealant, though it is the most well known. They make quite a few different types, even in the red category. Very generally the red thread sealants are for fasteners not expected or desired to ever come apart again. The blue stuff is for items that might need disassembly in the future. Cam gear bolt (for example.)
     
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  29. Retrorod
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,021

    Retrorod
    Member

    I'm with squirrel 100% on this one.
     
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  30. Agree with Wix, or the same made by Wix Napa Gold. If you can get the synthetic media versions they are even better, but cost a bit more. The Fram Ultra line is synthetic media and higher quality construction, those are OK to use.
    Also agree on getting a bunch of fasteners at Tractor Supply or similar by the pound. Grade 5 or Grade 8. Grade 8 is better bolt, heat treated for strength vs Grade 5 is just cold worked to make stronger. Avoid Grade 2, inferior type of material vs Grade 5. BTW, most stainless bolts are basically Grade 2 strength level, unless specifically designed to be stronger.
    Doubt you will find much US made bolts, unless you are an OEM type customer that buys millions of bolts. I always try to save old original bolts from cars, those are always good quality.
     

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