Projects trying to save an oval track 1940 Ford Jalopy

I think that is a 1950 or so ford 3/4 ton rear end. and it was the hot ticket in 50;s and 60;s dirt track cars. a easy way to get full floating rear axles, it was required by most tracks back then. it was much safer than a stock rear end and the axle coming out of the housing and flying into the stands. Back then the driver was safer than people in the stands.
and for those making fun of our 1950's race cars, it took real guts to get in the race car and hammer it around a dirt track with a cheap helmet and maybe a harness!!
make it new again!

 

I agree with RDR. I've seen them advertised for less, but that price seems more than fair. (I'll give you $100 for a change gear cover if there's a spare.) Looks like a bunch of extra finned aluminum drums go with them ($100 a piece, if in good shape, at a swap meet). Are you going to use "wide five" wheels? What will it cost for the pieces to convert a Ford 9" to wide fives? Or are you going to convert the fronts to match the 9" bolt circle? Or carry two spares? (I could offer you a Frankland 3/4 ton rear end, wide five, either a quick change or non-quick change, but they have period-incorrect disc brakes, and will cost you more. Saw a Halibrand QC rear, light duty passenger car based, at a swap meet for $3,500 asking price!)

(I noticed an apparent wheel swap between the as-advertised and the on-the-trailer pictures. Did you get the race wheels?)

Observation -- used to be that you would be congratulated for saving a derelict race car, now if you replace bad welds, poorly designed brackets, or rusty sheet metal, you get criticized. Historic value? -- did AJ Foyt drive it at Langhorne, just passing Mario Andretti on the last turn of the unforgetable 4th of July feature? It's your car, build what you want, have fun, and be safe!

 

I know this is not the same year car but damn this a pretty cool looking hot rod right here...this is flat towing into Fonda Speedway back in the first half of the 1960's...my goal is something like this...love the checkered flag on the hood too...
MikeC

 

Congrats on your new project - yes, make it safe since you plan to drive it on the street - but, maybe just put reinforcement under/behind some of the crappy looking work so that you do not rob this car of it's past

 

Mike, sent you a PM.

 

A friend of mind use to run Sportsman's class at Star Speedway, NH and when something broke at the track there was a guy with a portable welder on the back of his pickup doing repairs. They called his welding, "gorilla welds", strong but look like crap anything looking except for a roll of dimes.

 

When I was a kid in Amherst VA my neighbors had some old roundy-rounders laid up back in the woods; the ones I remember the clearest were a '57 Ford 2 door sedan and either a '55 or '56 as well, and a '57 Chevy.. Lots of other cars but these were the racing jobs; roll cages, no trunk floor, no trim, a truck bucket seat, home made racing rims (2 centers welded into a widened rim with re-rod bracing added on)... Neighbors were always running us kids out of there. They belonged to one of the kids' dads, and he wouldn't sell anything. Wish I'd snuck some pictures of those cars. Other than being barn red, I can't recall any distinct logos or sponsorship names but I know they had numbers and logos. For a teen kid with a raging hard on for old cars, that little spot of woods was heaven.

 

I have followed this thread from the beginning and I resisted my original impulse to comment on the direction you are going. First and foremost.....good for you....you are out there and doing it and I am not.
I am 73yrs. old and I came from an era of watching cars like yours from the time I was 12yrs. old. I still remember the sounds of flathead Fords.....inline Chev/Gmc.....inline 8 Buicks etc. all making their own music on the dirt.
I went on to build dirt track cars in the mid 1960's thru the early 1970's. I still have friends who survived the dirt track wars in cars just like yours.

I have found, rescued and sold over 15 vintage race car, midget, sprint cars in the last 35yrs. Every one of those cars went on to new lives either in very period correct form or "restored".

All of the stuff you are dismantling and throwing away is the very stuff that made that car what it was.....it's heart and soul......3/4 ton Ford rear end......water pipe roll bars.....re-purposed sheet metal.....cut down doors/ windows.....gussets.....springs with weight jackers etc. etc.

Once it becomes a "street rod" , it is no longer a vintage race car as you remember enjoying in your youth. And yes......I say this as someone who had AD design trucks in every configuraton imaginable from 1/2ton to COE.... and still have my 1953 Willys CJ3-B sitting next to my Solar railframe midget in the shed.....so I share several of you interests.

Have fun

 

I am virtually certain the rear end is a Timken (bought by Rockwell eventually) axle assembly. These were used in Ford 3/4 tonners, from the late 30's to, I believe, the mid 50's. Willys (definitely) and Studebaker (maybe) used them also, for heavy duty applications. "Wide Fives" wheel bolt circle were on the early Fords only. Don't know if the wide five bolt circle was identical to the '36 to ''39 passenger cars.

Highland Quick Changers used the hole axle assembly, welded on the new input shaft bearing/seal housing and change gear housing.

Halibrand and others made the Quick Change "banjo" center sections, which, in the light duty application (called "V8" type), just bolted in place between the axle housings, like a stock Ford banjo. The heavy duty QC (called "Champ" type) looked similar, but bigger, used two Timken left side axles and housings.

The Timken axle, being designed for heavy duty trucks with very low horsepower (by todays standards), means that typical gear ratios are very low (numerically high, probably above 4.8:1). This was fine for short track racing, but if your application requires something suitable for street/highway use, not so good.

For more than you ever wanted to know about these axles for racing applications, search in the HAMB for "Ford truck, floater, wide five when".

 

Had the day off yesterday...so I figured I would try to fix some rusty metal...
Still gotta do more grinding but we are getting there

I had to replace where the frame kicks up the whole section...where the out rigger body mount was...it was super thin there so I put another 12" long section on it...

I wanna keep the whole old stock car feel to it but make it safe to drive again...

still creeping along...
On another note...had one of my really old friends who I built my first and second stock car with stop over and
he has a 3 speed Chevy transmission for like $125.00 with a lot of the little misc. stuff still attached to it..he is shown here with our second stock we built...this is the summer of 1978 at my dad and moms house...
I also talked to the local (mini stock) race car cage builder and I sent him pictures of the existing cage...
he agreed and was anxious to recreate this cage for me...minus the booger welds...I also found inside the car...looks like someone was going to put door bars in it but for what ever reason they did not...I found 3 bent 1" water pipes sitting on the floor of this coupe...so the goal is get it back up and rolling again...get the body back mounted on it and get patching the existing holes....
so far we are still having fun...

MikeC

 

Yes, I think this car is losing it's racing heritage, it's soul is pretty much gone! The owner obviously does not understand what some of the old suspension tuning devices are that were installed on the car in it's prime so instead of researching it and maybe cleaning up a little of the crudeness....just cut it off and toss it! TooBad!

 

Had some free time today...inside the frame rails....we had some thin spots...cut it out and welded some new steel in...


the rear frame rails has C channel spreader bar...2 hook holes in it..both of them looked like they had seen better days...before shown here...

after a little tinkering with the welder and the hammer....shown below...

the rear frame rails....well they needed some love too...so we tinkered away on them too...

after it got some loving....

little hurtles...
I thought that spreader bar was ok...had to remove this part of the rear trunk floor to find out it was not...
4 bolts holding it on....all of them different sizes too...

MikeC

 

Though I get the passion of some of you for the race history of this car, it has little relevance for a street driven car (which appears to be the new owner's goal).

Its racing "engineering" was intended for a completely different purpose, and the build quality was sketchy, at best. There doesn't appear to be any significant provenance that would justify preserving the warts---except to show how horrific some builds were back in the day.

I say let him build the car he wants, and feel free to weigh in when he asks for input.

Otherwise, let's show support for saving a roached out old Ford coupe that might just have escaped a date with the crusher.

Sent from my SM-G892A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

That's the only point of life in my mind. I fell in a bit of an old age slump since being at your place back in January... I hope I can get back on track again, so I do prefer following those who are still stoked about something.

 

........Sadly,once you lose your passions, life is pretty much over.

 

So, I liked this, not because it’s great but because it can ring true on some levels.

@F&J things can be hard and getting older is seems to be one. As I approach 60 this year and have something’s going on it can effect your mental outlook and in turn how you view things as a whole.

My buddy @48fordnut has been building his 28 roadster and having various health issues that have limited his build time and I said the same to him, keep moving forward brother.

I hope that I can say the same to myself when I feel overwhelmed and want to say I’m done.

I like the build and lets see where it goes.

Cliff Ramsdell

 

Have to show off my 1939 HUDSON coupe. Not for the street. 308 HORNET engine. .060 over with an Isky cam, Vertex magneto, Edmunds head, Edmunds 2 carb intake and a 37 Packard floor shift transmission. I built the 201 steel converted quickchange with 9" axles and a 28 spline mini spool. The front suspension is 1948 Ford.

 

Oh my gosh Frames....that Hudson looks a lot like the 1937 Terraplane my dad had at my childhood home...I spent many a afternoon inside of it making race car sounds and dreaming of racing it...the car would sadly be lost in garage fire in Jan 1992...all I have left of it is the rear split window in my basement...

So I got some free time after work...not sure what happened to this piece but...I thought I might be able to save it..not sure...Bob Drake sells a pair of them...still debating what would be the right thing to do...

Then my adhd kicked in and I got my old trusty angle grinder out....this below is the drivers side frame rail near where the steering box would mount...

Now is looks more like this now....

Still have more finish grinding to do....here is the old piece I cut out...

Back in my Willys Jeep days...the folks on that side of the world would call all this stuff that I am fixing as "Bubba" did this or "Bubba did that...so "Bubba" is getting a make over...
Grinding my life away...I think next on the docket is prepping the x-member for replacement...maybe order some parts from Bob Drake and Speedway Motors and maybe even throw some money at the folks at Pete and Jakes too...
Life is good in the hood still...

 

OH MY GOD!!! There goes the soul!

 

Mike, build your vision and have fun with it, the nay-sayers can find and save all the rest of the cars with “SOUL”.

 

Hey glrbird....I am not sure if this old Jalopy is a guy or a girl yet but I have to say...it is a very Holey Soul for sure...thanks for the kind comments....I really appreciate it..
MikeC

 

I know they were used by Studebaker I have seen several, I have never heard Willys used them before.

 

These are the something from nothing builds that I love! Hey, Maybe you could graft that old terraplane back glass window surround into this just to make it yours?
I will be looking forward to seeing what you come up with, At this rate with a little welding here and a little welding there you will have this solid and a good majority of the way there
I hadnt been to the dirt track races in years but went to one at a old reopened nostalgic track about a month ago and have been to 3 races since,2 at it and one at another old track (smell the racing fuel)............wish they had a nostalgic class for 60s back cars around here or enough racers with the cars to support one

 

I don't think anybody would take offense with fixing rusted out frame sections etc. Just if your trying to recreate the look of a dirt tracker for the street than don't get rid of all the old race car stuff. You could keep the weight jacks for instance just don't make them functional. Keep the rollcage, cut down fenders, gas tank if you can make it safe. I know if it was mine I'd find a 3/4 ton rear end for the looks and make at least the drivers door open and put an old leather belt on it. A lot of stuff like that to make it look like a race car but in the end it is your car.

 

Might want to buy another grinder or two and lots of discs. The $10 grinders from Harbor Freight won't get you through this project. A lot of old Ford frames rusted out where the back legs of the X member meet the side rails. Moisture gets trapped in there and they rust out, especially in area where they used a lot of salt on the roads in the winter. Stress cracks on the steering box mount are common, somebody did good job repairing the one on my '38.

 

(My comment was tongue-in-cheek.)

I once bought a tractor that was built around 1942 from a '32 Ford roadster. Body, except for the cowl, removed and thrown behind the barn, chassis shortened, Model AA transmission installed, etc. I fully restored it to its original roadster configuration. Farmers around here were all madder 'n hell that its provenance was gone!

(Above is fictitious; no deuces were harmed in this story.)

 

Google "jeep pickup" or "jeep timken", you will find many references of its use in the Willys one-ton truck. For example:


"The Jeep Truck was available with only one transmission, the Borg-Warner T-90 threespeedmanual, with
synchromeshed second and third gears. A Spicer/Dana 18 transfer case was used on four-wheel drive models. The heavy duty Timken 51540 was used in the early years of production, later being replaced by the Dana 53. The front axle was a Dana 25."

 

Fonda Speedway!

 

Had some time this morning before the honey do's started...had this really tweaked crossmember...a little grinding the other day and a little heat and it came out....well sorta...before it looked like this below

I had an old guard off of a lawn mower I think...looked like the thickness was pretty close to this old bent up piece...I priced them at one of the vintage Ford suppliers and I think they $140 or $180 for a pair...so I got to banging and then some cutting and fitting ...we are just about out of gas so I had to work quick...
I put a call into the welding supply place...should have gas in a day or so...but I am kinda proud of this part...I didn't have to buy one and just fixed what was there...lots of beating and banging but it looks ok from here at least...
I also put in my first order for front end parts from Dennis Carpenter...wish me luck...

MikeC

 

Nice save.