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Technical Tremec tko 600 5spd problems

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mcmopar, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I bought a new tko 600 with carbon fiber rings for the up grades. The shifter is located in the mid shift place for a truck. I got a Mcloud flywheel, clutch and pressure plate, and a ram hydraulic throw out bearing. The master is a 7/8 bore wilwood . I put Pennzoil synchromesh fluid in it witch was recommend. I did a 500 mile break in. It shifts good when shifting slow, but if I shift fast it makes a clunk sound but goes in gear. Its not a sound of metal like a u joint, or broken motor mount. It is coming from the tranny. It will do it at 1000 rpms and 5000 rpms in every gear. I set up everything to the directions, and double checked everything. I went from a .040 gap on the clutch to flywheel, to a .060 gap and it is the same. When I try to get a bigger gap the clutch will slip. I have a new aluminum driveshaft with chrome moly yolk, so I ruled out u joints, and I double checked them.

    To me it seems like the clutch is not disengaging enough, but with the gap I have I don't believe that this is possible. I have been talking to the place I bought it from, and he is working with me but he seems stuck. I indicated everything, within .003 on the bellhousing. I am open to any ideas on this one.

    Tony
     
  2. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,303

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Pilot bushing tight on input shaft?
     
  3. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,854

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    That was my thought too. Mic the pilot bushing/bearing ID and compare to the OD of the input shaft. Also verify that the input shaft length has it engaging the pilot in your crank to the correct depth.
     
  4. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 952

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have an identical sounding setup in a '32 project that has yet to be fired up, so I'm subscribed! :) or :(, I dunno!

    I have used Dexron III ATF which was / is recommended. I wonder how this differs from your Pennzoil? Mobil 1 is listed also. Could make a difference?

    I've not yet fired the motor but the trans / clutch are installed, filled, clutch bled etc and working, well as far as I can tell! Shifting gears (whilst making engine noises of course :) ) I find there is a quite distinctive positive click as each gear is engaged, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a clunk!

    Not sure if that's of any help, but subscribed and please keep us informed of developments.

    I got all my stuff from Phoenix Transmissions. Tom there was most helpful and knowledgeable (as far as I could tell). I think they claim to be the biggest movers of TKO's, if that's worth anything!

    Chris
     

  5. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    new pilot bushing from ram clutches, .672 id and a 1.816 od. I will be checking it though.


    I agree on the click on the gear engagement, but I could be at idle and pull the shifter hard and it would make the noise. When I get it right I am sure I will love it.

    I called up Bowler trans and asked how they mate up a tko to a small block mopar and they said they use the ford input shaft and a special machined pilot bushing, and that is what I did.

    Tony
     
  6. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,207

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just a few random thoughts. You did not say which Ram TOB number youb are using, but I assume the TOB travel is matched to the clutch requirement. I've seen more that a few guys get a 0.400"race TOB and pair it with a stock clutch requiring 0.700"-0.800" throw. If required, did you trim the trans snout so it does not protrude through the TOB and hang it up. I have a TKO 600 with a Tilton TOB and the instructions required that be done. And this is info right off the RAM site:
    Factory hydraulic systems do not allow for adjustment of the pedal position, often resulting in a high engagement point when using aftermarket clutches. The RAM system allows you to adjust your pedal position lower to the floor for better driver comfort. Additionally, this system will allow you to minimize the release of your clutch system for racing applications. Some vehicles experience shifting problems at higher RPM due to overcentering, or overtravel of the clutch fingers. By limiting this travel and setting the clutch pedal for minimum release this overtravel situation can be eliminated, restoring clean shifts at high RPM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  7. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,854

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    Ford has two lengths for input shaft; the newer style is about 5/8" longer to reposition the shifter in the later model cars. Is it possible you have a transmission with a shorter shaft, but need the longer one to properly seat in the pilot? Just thinking out loud.
     
    Frankie47 likes this.
  8. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 480

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’ve only done TKO’s on the y blocks, but some combinations require shortening the input shaft about 1/8” to avoid bottoming in the crank. A thicker adapter results in the clutch splines not fully engaging on the input shaft. Sounds like that would have been addressed with the proper shaft and pilot bushing, but maybe tolerances stacked up wrong.
     
  9. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I have the correct spacer ring, it came with 2 different ones. I indicated the bore within .002 and .002 on the face. It doesn't sound like something hitting the body.

     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  10. earlymopar
    Joined: Feb 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,224

    earlymopar
    Member

    What bell housing did you use? Quick-Time, Modern Driveline or modified OEM?

    - EM
     
  11. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    It is a quick time, and is sfi rated.
    Tony
     
  12. B1gDaddy
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 261

    B1gDaddy
    Member
    from aladambama

    Did you use a pilot bushing or roller bearing?
     
  13. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I used a pilot bushing, from RAM.
    Tony
     
  14. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I got the new pilot bushing, measured the same as the one I took out. Checked end playoff the shaft, that felt good. Now I am stuck and not sure what to do next.
    Tony
     
  15. B1gDaddy
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 261

    B1gDaddy
    Member
    from aladambama

    That would be my first stop I think. I'm not a transmission man, but my experience and previous installs made a big deal about using a Torrington bearing not a bushing. Specific instructions said not to use a bushing !

    Mine have always wanted all the clutch travel also, so make sure the pedal is all the way to the top. Mi e shifts pretty bad without a full to floor clutch motion.
     
  16. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I talked to the guy that built it and he said a bushing was fine. I got it back together took it for a ride and still the same thing. How fast can a person shift one of these things? I was told that people are using these in gassers, so I would think that you can shift pretty fast. If there is anyone in the Eau Claire/Minneapolis area that has one or is a tremec installer that would go for I ride with me I would pick ya up. Like I said rpms don't matter. I can hold the clutch to the floor for 3 seconds, then shift and it still does it.
    Tony
     
  17. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I tried everything that was told to me on the shifting problem, and it did it all summer. I did take the truck on Drag week, and had a blast. I missed 2nd gear twice when racing, and 3rd 3 times this year when racing, about 35 passes this year. It got shifted at 6000 rpm's regularly. The trans still shifts great when driving it normal and can shift at any rpm slowly. My problem I have now is I have a hard time down shifting into 2nd only, so out it comes this winter to see what the problem is. I might relocate the shifter to the mid position in hopes of shifting better, but that means new floors in then truck, 1 change leads to 2. I'm sort of happy with it but not totally, so we will see how it goes next year.
    Tony
     
  18. Did you use 3/16" or 1/4" on the line from the master to the slave. The larger size is all I will use on a hydraulic clutch.
     
  19. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I believe it is a 3/16 braided line. I will look into it, but I would also like to here your logic on this.
    Tony
     
  20. earlymopar
    Joined: Feb 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,224

    earlymopar
    Member

    I have the same transmission and am also mated to a small block Mopar. I used a needle bearing for the Ford input shaft but due to the O.D. difference between the bearing and my crankshaft counterbore I.D., I had to machine an adapter for the needle bearing and that all works well. I can't speak to the noise/s you've encountered but you might want to speak with the guys @ Libertys Gears (http://libertysgears.com/). Of all of the TKO dealer-builders, they seem to be the one firm that deals the most with racing applications (by far) and can possibly shed some light on your situation.

    - EM
     
  21. Does the disk slide freely on the clutch gear? o_O
     
  22. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    earlymopar, I did get the whining noise fixed, it was the carrier bearings. I still have the clunk when shifting fast.

    ClayMart, it was loose when I put it in but anything can change. My work has tanken me out of town until march, so that is when I get to work on it again. I will answer questions that I can but I will have no hands on until spring.
    Tony
     
  23. earlymopar
    Joined: Feb 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,224

    earlymopar
    Member

    Just curious when looking at your last reply, is the TKO in your 37' pickup? I used to have one of those (a 37 Dodge P/U) and had adapted a Viper T-56 to my Mopar small block. That was at a time when no one had parts available to make the swap so there was a lot of leg work required but that was the fun aspect of it.
    - EM
     
  24. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    earlymopar, yep its in my 37 pickup,
    Tony
     
  25. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 6,725

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe a stupid question but do you have enough pedal travel to fully activate the TOB?
     
  26. The volume of a 1/4" line allows for a little quicker action. Chuck Neal told me that decades ago. CNC Manuf.
     
  27. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I have looked into this and I have also adjusted the air gap from .060 of a inch to slipping when I let it out, no difference on the shifting fast. It shifts great if not trying to speed shift for racing.
    Tony
     
  28. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I took the trans apart this winter, and had to replace 2nd and 3rd gear. I also put in new synchro's, and moved shifter location back to original location. I am glad to report that it shifts like it should, and I am now happy with it. I believe that it had bad synchro's from the beginning.

    Tony
     
  29. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,207

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    I have the same problem in a project I built, why did you move the shifter back to original location, what did that accomplish?
     
  30. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,562

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Im not sure it accomplished anything but I had the room so I did. I also didn't think that it was smooth in the most forward position. I really believe that it had bad synchro's from the start. Take it apart and look into it, this is the first one I have done and it was really simpler than I thought.

    Tony
     
    dirty old man likes this.

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