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Technical Trash in paint, getting ready to slit my wrists

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,617

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    After you sprayed , what did the paint in your pot look like? Looks like a chemical reaction not moisture or dust.
     
    da34guy and Roothawg like this.
  2. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,475

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    My guess is that your use of the grease and wax remover is the problem. How long did you wait before shooting the color after wiping it down. I won't use anything but a tack rag within 12 hours of shooting a car.
     
    Roothawg, Fordor Ron and milwscruffy like this.
  3. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,471

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are these bubbles innies or outies? Hard to tell from the pic. If they are an outward bubble, wait until dry and pop one and see if there is water inside. If it is an inward cave, I'm betting on your wax and grease remover giving you a fish eye type effect.

    Wax and grease remover is a funny thing...ready the instructions carefully.

    -Abone.
     
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  4. I was thinking the same thing. I use a "damp" clean cloth with lacquer thinner and then a tack rag.

     
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  5. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,475

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Wax and grease remover should be used before you start the project so you have a clean slate to start with. There should'nt be any grease or wax on the item if it's ready to paint.
     
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  6. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 968

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    I have had this happen a number of years ago with epoxy primer. My paint supplier told me I had bad activator. He got me a new can and I mixed it up and shot test panel. Problem solved. Since I don't paint very often any more I only buy what I need for a job and give any left overs to my buddy who has a full time shop. Activators absorb moisture from the air once open. Hope you have better luck going forward, I am looking forward to seeing this Uncle, Grandpa, nephew truck in shiney paint and on the road! :D:D Larry
     
  7. safetythird
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 70

    safetythird
    Member

    I appreciate you guys mentioning this-I was about to find out the hard way next week.

    Note to self-get rid of the old stuff.
     
  8. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    I may try switching brands to see what happens. I’ll buy local and shoot a test panel.
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC likes this.
  9. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    Jeff,
    Mostly raised. Looks like sand. Once it dries, I’m going into detective mode.
     
  10. Luke stone
    Joined: Sep 5, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Luke stone
    Member

    I'm guessing it's catylyst related I've had stuff that's crystallised before if it's been open for months it's dead.
    1 thing I'm curious about in 1 of your posts you mention digging in to see what's in the primer? Did you shoot this wet on wet?
     
  11. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 256

    KenC
    Member

    Too late to help with your issue, but for future: I always keep opened catalyzed products in my shop fridge.
    Both halves of the Bondo, all hardeners and activators. They last for over a year IME. On the shelf in the summer, lucky if they last 2 weeks. Cold slows all chemical reactions and the air is much drier in there too.
     
  12. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 4,354

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    I also will pour hardners into smaller containers.
     
  13. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    No, the metal was first sandblasted, then I hit it all with a da sander. Then it was blown off, wiped down and a tack coat was sprayed. Then a medium wet coat approx. 15 min later.

    I have raised bumps in the paint, I plan on seeing if there is anything inside these raised areas.
     
  14. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 4,354

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    Paint on bare metal?
     
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    Sorry, primer.
     
  16. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 4,354

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    Thanks. Ya had me worried for a second
    Your issue looks chemical related
    One recommendation on cleaning. I use a water or alcohol based cleaner as well as oil based(wax and grease remover)

    Also no aerosol armorall type products or WD40 ever in the shop
     
  17. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,690

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wife and I had a problem with 'aged hardner'. She discovered it, bought new and all was good.
    I'm a serious F100 guy, but that Apache is pure Zorch!
     
  18. WanatahHustler
    Joined: Jul 28, 2018
    Posts: 14

    WanatahHustler
    Member

  19. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,853

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Frustrating as hell. I feel for you! I'd go the basic troubleshooting route of "divide and conquer", same as an engine-spark good? fuel good?, etc. Start a troubleshooting tree. You have to figure out if it's;
    1. Your material (namely catalyst)
    2. Your prep
    3. Your air supply
    4. Atmospheric conditions
    Since your friends have successfully shot it with their air system...Take your gun, paint and catalyst and a primered/ready for paint test panel to a friends shop and shoot a small batch with their air system. This is running your engine with a gas can attached to the carb.
    • If it sprays out good, you know your material and gun are good. Take the loaded gun home and blow out/dry your entire air supply and blast a test shot.
    • If it's bad again through their air supply, shoot the material with their gun. If still bad, dump it and mix paint with brand new can of catalyst. And so on....
     
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  20. 59Tele
    Joined: Feb 5, 2016
    Posts: 128

    59Tele

    Did you investigate your new trap as the potential problem?
     
  21. Get rid of the oil /water separator and use a good air filter. I had the same issue where the cataylist came out chunky like yours. Bad batch. I also had a similar looking paint where the sand blasting media was blown out of crevices.
     
  22. So if I am correct:
    You sprayed it successfully in your shop in the summer.
    You tried spraying it again recently and had these issues.
    You added the drier/oil separator after the recent issues and it changed nothing.

    If this is the case I would guess it is either the catalyst has gone bad or you have added some sort of contaminate into your shop between your last use and this.

    No one has used anything in the shop that contains silicon in that time?
     
    WB69, jimgoetz and Roothawg like this.
  23. Oldioron
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 841

    Oldioron
    Member

    At the time your spraying and you have this problem have you dumped the product out of your gun and ran it through a stack of strainers to see if there a problem with the product in your gun?
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  24. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,233

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    I don't know anything about paint.

    Is the water trap a filter/coalescer type, or does it have a dessicant cartridge too?
    Where is the filter in the air line relative to a pressure regulator? The filters without a dessicant cartridge pretty much only catch liquid water.
    http://www.balstonfilters.com/learn-more/basics-of-coalescing-filtration
    A pressure reduction or expansion changes warm air into cooler air, and formerly "dry" humidity nearly instantly condenses into water.
    https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...e-wing-especially-during-take-off-and-landing

    Do you have a regulator on the gun? Like this ? -
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jbgAAOSwPsBa794m/s-l1600.jpg
    I figure they are just looking for trouble in regards condensation/water.

    A jury rigged cooler with a weep hole at the low spot can be a huge help forcing evaporated moisture to "drop out", as can a major pressure reduction/expansion, both a ways BEFORE the water filter.
     
    '49 Ford Coupe likes this.
  25. a boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,116

    a boner
    Member

    Don't do it!
    Slitting your wrists is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.....NEVER a good idea.
     
  26. 35WINDOW
    Joined: Jul 7, 2005
    Posts: 453

    35WINDOW
    Member

    I had the same thing happen with an Epoxy that I have used for years (looked identical, like sand in it), and the Manufacturer replaced both the Epoxy & Activator- problem solved-
    They told me that Epoxy Activator is good for 2 years from open, Paint Activators 30 days to 3 years (a lot of factors involved)- this is stored @ 70 degrees-
     
  27. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,891

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I keep a stack of wood rounds and a 10lb. splitting maul around for these situations.

    If it was dirt or other contaminant you would have seen it the moment the paint hit the panel. Anything else usually takes a few moments to minutes.
     
  28. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    It appears to have calmed down some after drying. This leads me to believe it is catalyst based. A few random pics to show different surfaces and my drier setup.

    AA888391-BD21-496F-83E8-D3B24955ECB7.jpeg 2B1E1A93-7CA8-4D8B-ADBA-A22DE5A42CA9.jpeg CBA332A0-2C75-4523-A988-7D692BAA739E.jpeg
     
  29. old.hot.rodder
    Joined: Oct 13, 2012
    Posts: 97

    old.hot.rodder
    Member

    I have done my share of painting over the years. I agree with most. Appears to be moisture. I can say I have never used steel piping in my shops. Always copper from the compressor. Not sure if this would help.
     
  30. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,676

    Roothawg
    Member

    It also has a desiccant drier. If there is any moisture, it's in the material itself.
     

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