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Traditional Welds?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by metalshapes, May 5, 2005.

  1. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,738

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    I'm always looking to save time and get more efficient at doing this, so I'm buying Tools and Machinery.
    One of the things I bought is a nice Old Planishing Hammer.
    It works great, but one of the things that is hard to do with it is work the areas that are welded.
    So I tried how it works on a Tig Weld compaired to a Mig Weld, and it does a lot better on a Tig.
    So then I thought, why not try some old fashioned Hammer Welding.
    So far I really like it, its a bit slower but I think I can save time by grinding less, and hopefully the Planishing Hammer won't get hung up on the weld like it does with Tig/Mig...
    I do about 1/2 Inch of weld at a time, and Hammer it out while it is still Red Hot...

    Re adjusting the Torches after every time I stop to Hammer is a pain in the ass, though.
    I'm going to try and find one of thoose stands wth a pilot flame on it...
    Or maybe I should buy a Heinrob Torch...
    Does anybody have any suggestions or tips for me??
     
  2. One suggestion: "Gas Saver"

    Saves a little on the gas,a LOT of time and hassle.:D


    MIG welds are generally considered too hard for planishing,
    and prone to cracking.


     
  3. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,738

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    What is a Gas Saver, Unkl?
     
  4. rattlecanrods
    Joined: Apr 24, 2005
    Posts: 352

    rattlecanrods
    Member

    The Gas Saver is a basically a switch in your gaslines with a pilot light. You hang your lit and set torch on it, which switches off the gas supply but does not disrupt your settings. I saw one used at Fournier's shop. If you do any kind of gas welding it is a must have. You do not need a Henrob torch to use one.

    Check out Fournier's site... I think he sells them.
     
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  5. I'm learning to hammer weld right now. If someone runs across a link to this Gas Saver thing, please post it. Boy, it'd be handy...not that it'd improve my welds any though.
     
  6. touchdowntodd
    Joined: Jan 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,063

    touchdowntodd
    Member

    we do work with torch and hangers.... so... yeah... this would be EASY
     
  7. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,422

    DrJ
    Member

    And that would be called what? and where?
     
  8. We have a gas saver that we havent ever mounted up. the corner of the vice stand has a hole we hang the Henrob in while hammering, leaving it lit. I can dig our saver out and photo it if I cant dig up a link?
     
  9. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,738

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Do you want to sell it??
     
  10. I knew you would ask that! I will ask tomorrow.
     
  11. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,987

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    I'd be interested in information on the gas saver also. We had a shop here in town that had one but would not share the information on who made it or where to get it. The cranky old bastard that owned the shop closed the doors a couple of years ago and the gas saver was not in the auction. I suspect it will be in the coffin when they bury him.


    Frank
     
  12. yorgatron
    Joined: Jan 25, 2002
    Posts: 4,228

    yorgatron
    Member Emeritus

  13. bills model a
    Joined: Aug 27, 2004
    Posts: 305

    bills model a
    BANNED

    i use a tig for me its easier
    i weld about a inch at a time and then hammer and get good results
    or i have just made a holder for the torch on a adjustable stand so i could change the height for comfort
    hope that helps
    bill
     
  14. fastfrankie73
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 450

    fastfrankie73
    Member

    My torch set has that feature built right in. I have a 30 year old craftsman torch that has a small thumbwheel and a pilot screw so you can let it burn with just a little flame about the size of a cigarette lighter flame. you click the twheel back and you just have a small flame then you click it foward and poof you have your original setting. I don't use the pilot I just use the twheel and relight and everything is set the way you left it. I'll see if I can find the paperwork and get the model #. If I had a digital camera I'd post a pic but then again if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle;)
     
  15. Isaak_M
    Joined: Oct 31, 2004
    Posts: 183

    Isaak_M
    Member
    from LV/WA

    I'm going to break ranks here and say this: any air hamer worth anything should be able to handle welds dead cold- provided that there isn't a bunch of excess material in the weld bead.
    I seem to recall you mentioning that it's a Watervliet? I know they hit a lot faster (like 10,000 bpm vs say 3-4000 bpm of a regular hammer), but i'm not sure if that's at the expense of how hard a hit. In Fay Butler's air hammer book, he mentions that the pedestal version Watervliets had regulators adjustable from 40- 125 psi. So, getting to the point- crank the air pressure up and see if it makes any difference.
    Otherwise, find a CP or Milwaukee hammer...
    Oh: 2 other things to consider: frame rigidity, and the thickness of the face of the die.
     
  16. I made up a stand for my Oxy, I use 25mm square tube and 20mm square tube (1inch & ¾ inch).

    I welded the 1-inch to an old rim and slid the ¾ into it.
    Drill a hole in the 1-inch and weld on a nut, screw in the bolt and weld a small rod to the head of the bolt.

    Cut a “V” out of some 18 gauge and weld it onto the ¾ tube.

    Find a nut that will screw onto to the tip of the Oxy (about 1 inch back from the tip, you will have to force it a bit).

    The nut on the end of the tip will stop the torch falling out of the V.

    The 2 sizes of tube makes it adjustable up and down, so it holds the torch if you are standing or you sitting, just set it up in reach and leave the torch going until the next weld.

    Also had one that used a small truck brake drum as a base.



    .
     
  17. striper
    Joined: Mar 22, 2005
    Posts: 4,482

    striper
    Member

    I've always let my torch burn while hammering. Did think it was a big waste of gas but better than trying to readjust each time. Didn't know such a thing existed. Very cool. The multi work station on the Fournier site looks pretty good too. Thanks for the info guys
     
  18. Deuce Rails
    Joined: Feb 1, 2002
    Posts: 2,016

    Deuce Rails
    Member

    If the Gas Saver costs $162, where's the savings?

    [​IMG]

    That thing would need to save a LOT of acetylene and O2 in order to pay for itself. Or are you paying a lot for gas?

    --Matt
     
  19. laverda
    Joined: Feb 18, 2003
    Posts: 292

    laverda
    Member

    I run flash back arrestors on my torch OA lines and wondered if I should also use them on the Gas Saver lines :confused: FYI - I found a Gas Saver at my local 'sell everything shop' (like Tractor Supply) on sale for ~40CDN. Small mods required.

    later,
    papa al
     
  20. Absolutely no way, you'll never hammer a MIG weld flat like a gas or TIG weld. It's like the diff. between tool steel and alum, not to mention that a MIG weld will crack every single time. MIG welding heat treats the area immediately with tremendous concentrated heat and makes it brittle. Usually two good hits trying to hammer a MIG weld flat will crack it (on sheetmetak work we're talking here). That's why TIG & gas are superior for even chassis / roll cage work.

    With that said, McMaster Carr has gas savers, as a lot of other places do also....the cheapest I've seen them is about 149.00 I believe. If you do a lot of welding or plan to do it for years, it's def. worth it, because sometimes you have to take longer between welds working the metal than just welding a run then setting it down, hammering a few seconds then repeating.
     
  21. Dan
    Joined: Mar 13, 2001
    Posts: 2,367

    Dan
    Member

    metalshapes - are you gas welding that Model A (??) with a regular o/a setup, no henrob? I would like to try that but am afraid I would warp it due to the heat?? If I could use my o/a and not spring for a henrob that would be cool...
     
  22. If you get a 00 tip for your reg gas setup, as long as it isn't one of those hinkin' big railroad sets, you can get by with minimal warpage after some practice. I have a Henrob/Cobra/Dillon , they're kind of funky to get used to, they cut good, and have their uses, but I hardly ever use it, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Your best alternative is a Meco Midget, go to Kent Whites site he's about the only one that has them anymore. I've got 3 now, 2 old ones from years ago and just bought another from him a few months ago so 2 to 3 of us can weld at the same time. They're super small , easy to handle and get in places, especially for tight roll cage & chassis work & inside of quarters & under cowls. They're only about 105.00, but you'll need a few tips in addition to play with...so maybe spend 140.00, way better and easier to use than a Henrob. The aircraft industry uses these every day still and are FAA approved to gas-weld aluminum.
     
  23. Rusty
    Joined: Mar 4, 2004
    Posts: 9,448

    Rusty
    Member

    Very good info thanks
     
  24. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,738

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Yeah, I am using a Victor Torch with a 00 Tip.
    I havent done any O/A welding for a long time, and I forgot how much fun it is...
    I will definitly get a Gas Saver ( to save gas, but also to not have a big open flame while I'm Hammering...), and a Henrob. ( and a pair of goggles with a elastic band that is still elastic...:rolleyes: )
    The Metal does warp, but by Hammering it while it cools down you keep that under control ( although this was in a area where the warp was easy to control, we'll see how it does on a Door or a Roofskin...)
    I'll still use my Mig and my Tig when those would be the most efficient, but its nice to have the option of doing it an other way, if the job calls for it...
     
  25. KnuckleBuster
    Joined: Oct 6, 2002
    Posts: 298

    KnuckleBuster
    Member

  26.  
  27. skumbag
    Joined: Feb 16, 2005
    Posts: 688

    skumbag
    Member

    are there any threads on how to hammer weld? maybe just the basics?
    i've never really heard of this. how hard is it?
     
  28. djmartins
    Joined: Feb 11, 2005
    Posts: 411

    djmartins
    Member

    I have seen new gas savers on Ebay for under a $100.00.
    I belive they were at about $70.00 plus shipping.
    I bought a couple of older ones that need a bit of work for under $25 for both on Ebay.

    I know there have been a bunch of articles on hammer welding in the hot rod mags through the years.
    It isn't too hard to do.
    Like anything else, a lot of practice and learning from your mistakes should get one up to speed reasonably fast.
    Burn and beat some scrap until you think you've got it, then go at your ride.

    regards,
    Doug
     
  29. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    Any good welding shop should have the gas saver thing. I asked at my local store where I get my bottles filled and they had one. Seems like it was a bit pricey. I have a hole in the bench that I set mine in when I am hammer welding. What works really slick is when you have 2 people, one welding and one hammering, or just a helper to hand the torch to.
     
  30. Have you bought a tank of gas latley? I mean the pump gas you have to put in your truck to go get your acetylene and O2 tanks filled.
     

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