Somebody once said in jest, "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." Not only was this an amusing play on words, but in the context of hotrodding, I believe a truism. There are lost of fad-ridden too-low, off-brand cars masquerading under the umbrella of "tradtion" that really should be properly labeled as something else (if we're going to label these things.) tra·di·tion (tr-dshn) NOUN: The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage. A body of unwritten religious precepts. A time-honored practice or set of such practices. I've been thinking for awhile now that rodders have at worst been mis-using the term traditional, or at least painting it with a pretty wide brush. As it applies to hot rods, I think we can all agree that "Traditional" applies to rods modified in long-standing styles utilizing long-standing methods. I also believe that we can identify a black Deuce roadster on steelies with bias-plys and a flathead with a pair of 97's on top of it is a (perhaps THE) traditional hot rod. But what REALLY makes a car a traditional hot rod? Perhaps we can identify what a traditional hot rod is by explaining what it is not. It is NOT a racecar. Though originally hot rods were the racers of the dry lakes and drag strips, racing breeds innovation and advances. Though many of the identifying features of traditional hotrods were born in acceleration and speed trials, only a few of those defining attributes remain on these racers as they compete today. Who is going to trust a heated and stretched "Dago" axle at 200+mph? Very few noteable or iconic hot rods are/were traditional. The very features that made them noteworthy and trendsetters at the time BREAK with tradition. It was a very rare vehicle that started a new style or technology that survived long enough to become considered a hotrodding tradition. I'm speaking of traditional in a very literal sense here, but you gotta admit that McMullen's deuce roadster went beyone its traditional roots when he added a 6-71 and a drag chute. So what IS tradtional? Well, not taking regional traditions into account, we can definitely say that a traditional hotrod is going to be a Ford. I know plenty of other cars have been hotrodded throughout the years, but what I'm talking about is not what a few guys built back when, but what many built then, are building now, and will continue to build in the future. We're talking about cars that NEVER went out of style. While you might be able to make arguments for model T's and A's (especially roadsters), THE traditional hotrod is going to be based on either a Deuce roadster or coupe, a Model 40 ('33-'34)coupe, or a '39-'40 Ford coupe or sedan. What's going to be in that old Ford? Why it'll either be a flathead V-8 or a Chevy small block. I can hear you now: "But the SBC is a cliche!" Exactly. THAT is what makes a tradition: doing the same thing over and over. Thousands of mouse motors have been swapped into hotrods since its introduction in 1955, and there really is no more traditional hotrod motor. The flathead fell out of favor in the sixties, and if it weren't for its great hop-up history and the fact that it CAME in these Fords, it might not even make the list. Thankfully, there were hardcore traditionallists already starting up even in the flower power generation, and they kept the flathead alive for it's re-discovery in the '70s and '80s. I might hear arguments about the inclusion of the Hemi on this list, not because it has ever really been a common swap, but because of it's near-religious reputation as the king of mills. Suspension will be transverse-leaf at both ends. Coils were only cool in the late sixties and seventies, and coil-over, though quickly becoming a new tradition, just haven't been around long enough to make the list yet. I think dropped tube axles may JUST be making the grade, but keep them at 3"-4" of drop - any more is just not trad. Oh yeah - keep the ladder bars and four-bars on your race cars. Traditional hotrods sport wishbones (split or not) or hairpin-style radius rods at both ends. A traditonal rod doesn't need a modern nine-inch rear either. If it doesn't have a '40 Ford banjo, then a V-8 Q-C or an Olds rear will work just fine. Brakes? Front discs are qusestionable, but perhaps neccesary on modern roads. Preferable are Ford juice brakes, and know that those Buick finned drums really aren't that traditional... only the exceptional cars were running those back in the day. Wheels and tires are a sticky point. Like flatheads, Ford and Kelsey-Hayes spokes went out of favor for awhile, but are back with a vengeance. Same with wide-whitewalls. The safe bet will be Ford steelies with big and little blackwalls. Real hotrods do not have wheelcovers unless they say "Moon" on them and install with self-tapping screws. Flipper caps on rods were a fad, not a tradition. Torq-Thrusts are a later addition to the traditional look - these things NEVER go out of style. I could say the same about Halibrand-style mags, but few cars ran them on the street back in the day. Perhaps because everybody dreamed about running them on their late-fifties/early sixties rod, we can let them slide a little. There's only two traditional carbs for a flathead - either Stromberg 97's or Holley 94's. Two or three of these are trad. More are a cartoon. Same with the SBC - you get three-twos or one or two four-barrels. Blowers are too exotic to be strictly traditional, though just like Halibrands everyone was dreaming of running them - I'm open for debate on the GMC 4/71. Transmissions? Flatheads get Toploaders or La Salle conversions. SBC's get Muncies, Powerglides or the TH350. I know, I know... but there have so many of them installed that they pretty much DEFINE tradition, even if it's a more recent addition. Oh yeah - did I mention that black and red are probably the only two colors that have been consistently widely accepted? Yellow, orange, green and even purple have made the rounds a few times, and blue is always around, but we're talking about the CLASSIC colors for a hotrod. Now I gotta make a disclaimer to limit the number of you guys that get your panties in a bunch. I'm really narrowing the definition of a "traditional hotrod". I am not telling you that your channeled '34 Chevy in primer may not be "period correct". All I'm saying is that in my book, it is more of a "traditionally styled" car... perhaps "traditionally inspired"? This wasn't about whether somebody did cars like you did them back in the day - I'm trying to define the way MOST of them were done, and have continued to be done to the present day. THAT is what defines a tradition.
Im really thinking that everyone should stop trying to define anything and just build your car. Most people dont know what the fuck period correct even is or traditional.. Screw it .. put your energy to better use in the garage. This is the kind of post thats gonna go no where. Im 55 years old and i can tell you what i think is correct but im not gonna.. Just build the god dam thing and be safe about. Dave
You know, there was another point I wanted to make that somehow got discarded while I was up on my soapbox: If you want to build your own personal expression of what a hotrod of a certain era is like, then don't call it "traditional". As soon as you start going off the page, making your own judgements and changes, it stops being tradition and starts being innovation. That ain't a bad thing, just realize that in the strictest terms, a traditional rod is like a musclecar or vintage racer setoration: there is little or no room for self-expression... just for history.
That's absolutely right. You can build a period car, a traditional car, or just build YOUR car. I don't want to label it - I'm just tired of them being mis-labeled. I wouldn't build a traditional or period car to save my life - I'm an artist by nature, and my cars have always been extensions of my own ideas of what a car should be. These were just ideas I had bouncing around inside my head at work today.
That's why I'm not building a "traditional" hot, but a "tradition" inspired personal expression of the way I view hot rods. Yeah, it's a Model A with an undropped axle, wide 5s, a flathead with a pair of 94s, a Merc OD trans, a banjo rear, Ford juice brakes, and precious little that doesn't make it go faster or stop faster. I'm not sticking to a tradition, just following the "rules" they would have followed. Got to disagree with drawing the line of seperation between hot rods and race cars .................... but that would have to depend on the era you're drawing your inspiration from. I think you've covered most of the "rules" though. Tim D.
Need to change your name to "PooPooLarry"...hahaha! FWIW.... Not ALL hotrods "back in the day" were Fords. There were actually quite a few Chevy's running the lakes too before the war.....many were called gowjobs...how ironic...
Here is what perplexes me. I don't know any rodders that were actually there back in the day. I know of many that picked up the torch for rodding in a big way and have immersed themselves in it to learn every nuance. (Ryan is the poster child) But if I build a car, and call it traditional, who will I meet on the street to disagree? I really appreciate Dave's take on this subject. JusJunk Dave has a point, too. I suspect his years have him in a place where he is not contemplating this topic. I'm younger, so I am just getting started. My feeling is that building a car in a tradional manner differs a great deal from traditional rodding. A duece built as a traditional car is much like dave outlined. A tri-five Chevy built by a traditional rodder would differ a great deal. The word is not exclusive of any single era. I am building a car traditionally (scrounging the parts I can't afford, taking the less expensive stuff, and passing over the newest tech), but it will not be an era correct car. It will be different. Innovative? No. I'm not a trail blazer. Modern? No. Classic? Nope. It will be what I want. It will be inspired by the cars of the salt lakes with a little bit of attention to modern safety and handling. I promise never to sell it as Traditional, but I am building it in the traditional manner that was handed down to me.
The only tradition I adhere to is build what you want and drive it. Fortunately for me, I remember the 50 aand 60s cars and thats what I like so thats what I build. On the other hand I have no qualms about doing something a little safer.
I agree, however these cars did not REMAIN popular, so never became TRADITIONAL. They are HISTORICALLY CORRECT, and a heck of a lot more interesting than a truly TRADITIONAL car. As for "traditionally built" - I'll go along with that term. I think that's more in line with what is being built today. Tri-Five Chevies? Not really Hot Rods, but there are definitely another set of traditions for street machines, just like another set of traditions for customs and even lowriders. I like the idea of using tradition as a basis on which to traditionally build a very non-traditional car. If I can see a car just like the one I built parked next to me at a show, it's time to build something different.
I just hope the Traditional guys don't go overboard and make it like a Concourse show where instead of standing back and looking at the car and saying "cool car!" and just admiring it for what it is, they pull out the clipboard and start going down the checkoff sheet of rules for traditional cars: Does it have the correct blackwall bias ply tires? No deduct 20 points Does it have the correct tar-top battery with Fomoco battery cables? No deduct 5 points Does it have the correct "fruit jar" master cylinder? No deduct 5 points Does it have the correct nitrocellulose lacquer paint? No deduct 11 points Does it have the correct factory mohair headliner? No deduct 3 points Does it have a Mexican blanket seat cover? Yes, add 2 points Is the Mexican blanket made of cotton instead of wool? Yes, deduct 1 point Does it have the correct plywood floors? No, deduct 14 points. I'm all for traditional rods because they look cool, but so do other cars that maybe don't fit the category perfectly. If somebody's got a cool '39 Studebaker, I'm going to go out of my way to check it out because it's not something you see every day. I'm not going to go through a mental checklist and decide it's not cool though because it might have a 425 Olds in it or something that's not on the "traditional" checklist though. I'm all for a little variety. I think trying to narrow the list of what's acceptable to the traditional purists just goes towards excluding people from the fun. To me, if it's old, and it looks cool, and it's built with your own hands with mostly old parts, that's what's cool. I like a lot of variety. It's all about having fun. To me, it ain't much fun to waste time trying to file every car I see into a certain category. No offense to the hardcore traditionalists, because that's what this site is about, but I think maybe you'd have more fun if you could be a little more open to a little variety. I mean if you saw a row of a hundred '32 Ford roadsters, all painted black, and all with black wall tires, and all with flatheads, and all at the same exact stance, I think you'd start to get a little bored after about the first 20 or 30 of them and want to see something else for a change. Variety is the spice of life. No offense though, I don't want to make any enemies on here.
Jesus, not this crap again.... Threads like these are becoming traditional to the HAMB. Sometimes tradition isn't such a good thing.
This is an interesting thread as I have always wondered about the term “traditional” myself. What has always confused me is this……if a guy took a 10 year old car and put up-to-date running gear in it and the year was 1960, we would now call that guy a hero and worship the car as it would be a traditional hot rod. On the other hand, if a guy were to take a 10 year old car and put modern day running gear in it TODAY, we would call that guy an idiot and his car an abomination. It seems we really just like antique styling. For me personally, I prefer a dual brake master cylinder, disk brakes, and yes, even fuel injection! I like to take an old slow car and make it go faster with modern parts, just like they did in the day. Mike
Only a Ventura guy.... Is the Sportsman on Calfornia still in business? Great place for beating on dead horses....
Quote:" a traditional rod is like a musclecar or vintage racer restoration: there is little or no room for self-expression... just for history " endoQ.. Not so , unless you are restoring an old "barn-find" Hot rod that you want to bring back to its former glory ! Just 1 of many exsamples on how you can add room for self-expression : You can use hidden door hinges on a forties style `32 deuce roadster ... WHY ? ..Well , because Bob Mcgee did so back in `47. : Self-expression back in the 4ties , Hot Rod history today Klaz
The reason most dont like to see a post of this nature is because everyone ends up pissed. I will not state that I agree or disagree with gowjob. I will only state that many younger guys here have learned from these type of posts. Why?? Most of the time we all have used the word traditional.... but unless we get upset we dont bother explaining our definition. I would rather see a post like this vs. a flatblack red wheeled civic on the road. I bet this post would stay on if it was discussed in a civilized, thoughtful and respectful manner.
Hot Rodders have always used what was available to them...they were innovators....we've come a long way, for better, and for worse....My car has, to me, a "timeless" style...perhaps that would be a good way to describe it, 'cause lets face it, teal and coral paint, with tweed lightnin' bolts the doors...WILL date a car....like a Wizard mural on a crager sportin' van... Just wait 'till people are building "period correct" 80's/90's style cars....combing e-bay for all that hard ta' find billet... Build what ya' like...its yer $$$
Here's a "family" tradition handed down from my father, " If you own it and you like it , fuck what gowjobs thinks"
Now that I've read this, I'm going back to the garage to build something non-traditional that I really want to do. G-night!
It is really interesting that younger guys want to latch on to the essence of whatever "traditional" is by defining it. I think that is fair and I think that some older guys who have been through it all owe it to younger guys to explain. No one really stays eighteen - nineteen - twenty through his whole life and change happens. It is true that we can research the past and build a "little book' type of rod. Maybe. Is that traditional or copying a tradition? Is the essence of our hot rod tradition imitation or just some real respect? I am older. I spent my youth in a certain era. I respect tradition and I respect youth. I will build my ride my way and not really give a shit what anyone thinks and I will always respect you and what you do. Respectfully, himmelberg
th350 in, sbc in, 9" out, doesn't really hold true to your own rules ask any of the younger (not as informed) guys and they will tell you that is a hot rod (350,350,9), no matter what it is in.
Thanks for starting this thread, gives us lots of things to think about after reading this. My personal idea of a hot rod is that it should 1. go fast 2. look good 3. handle and stop well that order may change with my mood
Traditional is a moving target....Don't you think that the Doane Spencer duece was cutting edge and high tech for the day!!!??? How about the Mcgee deuce was high tech for that era!!!??? We all use traditional methods to build our cars, but the truth is that as hot rodders we have always used the latest neatest go fastest stuff we can find. Navarro heads then Dart heads now. Build a car the way you like it. 60's style, early 50's custom....But traditional don't stand still!!!!!
Traditions do (slowly) change throughout time, and I do think that a "traditional" car will sport coilovers, radials and a nine-inch in another ten years or so. In another twenty-five, those old gas-guzzling LS-6 motors may be traditional. Someday we may be waxing nostalgic for those fiberglass Coast2Coast mis-shapen '37-'39 Ford things that all the chainers like so much. That was one of my points - as rods progress, traditions will continue to evolve. That said, my favorite cars are all wild ones with only a passing nod to tradition so that there is some frame of reference. I like weird shit like FE-powered Hillmans and crazy cars like the PPE. Neither are in any way traditional, but they're historically feaseable and just damn COOL.
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