Traditional ...not what your thinking

I ,like most of you get tired of the "what defines s this and that " posts.
Yet I do see a constant theme at time,that kinda seems odd.

Real quick. Traditional ..to me just plain and simple means "how it use to be done "

mind you Im not saying this part and that part traditional ,,like this part and that part are a must,,more the mechanical end of modifications given what they had to work with at the time.

Now keeping that in mind,,so many rant on about what is and what is'nt ( and
I'm sure that will never end ) but,I see alot of Tech questions on how stuff "WAS" done,,that quickly get dismissed . By this I mean over the years technology has advanced and things have improved. Folks are very quick to say "don't waste your time " etc,,just go with this.

K,,I can understand certain things like,,ok maybe this part works much better or is alot safe etc etc. but, in the "traditional sense" you had what you had THEN to work with so.....

If someone has a vision of what they wanna build ,,like back in the day ,and we see what the visions of them produced then why so quick to point someone away from such things ?

Part of this comes from doing a search on narrowing a banjo rear..everyone points out the negatives and suggests something OTHER than what the person asked help with. Now to my way of thinking ,this is something that was done at one point and it seem kinda often especially with old dragsters
so why is'nt anyone willing to offer help with it other than all the negative points and get a Ford 9 inch ?

I see far to many posts with far to much info on chevy S-10 swap which sure is'nt traditional,,yes again it is evolution but I don see how folks can claim Traditional,,if they are always gonna opt out ,,for modern technology ?

I mean thats fine if your gonna do a modern day traditional whatever but if yer gonna stay with 'old school' even though some things have improved over the years can we not so quickly push them off to the side ?

The knowledge and way things were done then can be applied now and seems a shame to waste on th "just get one of these " routine.

Hope that all made a lil sense

 

...and here I was all ready to completely ignore you, then you go and make a lot of sense.

I think it might have to do with the fact that people just don't have the knowledge base with the older parts. I'm not saying that people don't know anything about them, but that the hot rod knowledge never really got passed along on a widespread basis. I'm sure there are people here on this board that can pass on a lot of that information but they get drowned out by others, so they quit competing with the noise, at least that's what I believe. It's too bad, 'cause those older guys are the reason I joined here.

 

Yeah, made perfect sense to me but we will always have those who opt to modernize to some degree, me included. I don't have what most would call a traditional rod being a tunnelrammed 55 chevy but I picked a theme and tried to stay within that. I went modern only with front disc brakes, Camaro rear, M-22 trans and a 65 Impala console and a Formula tilt column. Everything else stayed 55. What I did was what I had to do at the time to be able to drive the car and once I started doing that I left it alone and tried to keep going on other things that need attention. So, part of what I"m saying I guess is that alot of people building their rods, do what they have to do to get the ride going, whether it's from a safety or modern convenience standpoint. It may not be traditional but if it works for them and they feel better for what ever reason ,well, that's up to them IMO

 

First of all, you ask a valid question & make perfect sense. The people that have the knowledge to answer such an esoteric question are either not on the HAMB, or are drowned out like Electrodude said. Some people on here ask a question, then don't like the answer, so they either dismiss it or ridicule the person answering it in good faith! Kinda like, "don't confuse me with facts, I believe what I believe!"

 

There's a reason that some of us on social security opt for a T-5 behind a banger. we're too damn tired of crawling under cars to drop a '39 transmission after it's shucked it's gears. While I appreciate Ryan's concept of promoting traditional hot rods, the fact is that we were always looking for something better. Chevy engines were cheaper and more available that other makes of OHV engines in the 50's and 60's. I admire some of the cars that turn up here that are true to the period. On the other hand, some of the "traditionalists" wouldn't have made it past the club tech inspector in 1958.

It's always been my belief that "traditional hot rodders" were always looking for a better way to do things and figuring out how to use the latest technology to build a better hot rod.

 

Boy, that last sentence says it all. I really feel you've captured the essence of hot rodding with that thought. At least that's the way I've always seen it.

 

This is the question of all time. Everywhere I go around my town the same points are being made, so you do make perfect sense. I get a lot of flack from my co workers about my vehicles, and I always just try to explain that I would prefer to keep the parts on my cars the year of them or earlier. However, some things are inevitable. Right now im fighting with a radiator and I just dont know what to do. I dont want to go new and aluminum, but my truck has to run. Who knows. Either way, you make a valid point and I think everyone is going to use their own discretion regardless of what the "guidelines" are.

 

Its kinda like my underwear, I'm old and like the whitey tighties I've worn for a hundred years, my hot assed young girlfriend wants me wearing the boxers, yeah, they are newer styled, but for me, newer isnt always better.

reckon this analogy fits better than my boxers?.....yeah, I caved and wear the boxers, but she is hot....

 

yeah, i agree with you on this. i prefer staying with this most of the time. everyone tells me i should go the easy way out and i tell them everyone else does it and it's boring, nothing different about it. i don't want to have the same thing the next guy has.

 

Good points made here. Speaking for myself, if it's newer than 1964, I won't use it on a traditional custom or rod (keyword traditional). What that means is these parts are before my time, and I came on here to learn about such parts. Who better to learn from, than those who lived it.

PS: Maybe I should have meant nostalgic and not traditional.

 

Great thread. Brings up some things that need to be thought about. A smart person once said "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts." Most of what constitutes "traditional" or not falls into the opinion catagory. People who are passionate about something tend to have more opinions and are more liikely to express them. All this is good. Opinions result in the promotion of interest, discussion, knowledge, critical thinking, new ideas, and new friends. The strong opinions are good reading, personal attacks are a reflection on the writer. Keep the HAMB going. It's a great site.

 

...one more thought: sometimes going traditional is not an option.

I love raking through the gears, but I can't work a clutch anymore with my left leg, so rather than drive around forever in my POS Aerostar, I'm building a jalopy with an automatic. I'll be running discs on it too, but that's simply because I can build them from junkyard parts without breaking the bank.

I'd love to do juice brakes with Buick drums, but have you seen the prices for them? Sometimes not going traditional is a choice made by the pocketbook too...just some food for thought.

 

I am having a hard time caring anymore.

 

oh I completely agree,,yet still would like to be able to have all the info so that if i "choose" to stay with something older ,,I have the info available

as I said I completely understand up grades in safety and reliability,,more the knowledge and also what was done to "improve" the older parts before the Improved ones came along

 

Being a 60 year old that grew up around hot rods in the 50's and early 60's I find it amusing when some 20 year old tells me how cars were built back in the day. A lot of the traditional cars I see at traditional car show would have never been on the streets back then, the police would have had a heyday with no floors, window height, no wipers, safety glass, exhaust, ground clearance etc.
I sometimes wounder when the law backlash is going to start from some of the Rat Rods seen on the street. It only take a couple of bad accidents with other people involved to get the news media and the politicians started.
My other laugh is no IFS on traditional cars, Ack Miller built a few, which inspired me to use a modified 50's Ford card frame under My 36Chev coupe and no fenders. That car if I had it today would not get into traditional car shows and it was built in 1964-66.
Also the post about knowable people not posting because of all of the banter is probably a valid point.

 

hahahahahha, thats serious... I guess I'm the same way, I want to build it correct, but as said, money, parts availability, and just in general, what do I have here to work with.
I'm happy its on the road, not to worried if its accepted by the masses or purists, I likes it and its not a "rat".

 

The best way to dodge the new experts is to ask specific questions that require specific answers and not opinions. You'll get less responses but probably more information and less opinions.

Everyone is surely entitled to his or her opinion. Just don't lecture me because I want to do something that does not agree with your opinion. If you can't help me with what I want to do just keep quiet and don't tell me I'm making a mistake.

 

Good points made all around...but this thread will probably gets closed or at the least lost in the shuffle of S-10 tech and the real folks who could stand to give it a once over won't ever see it.

Turboroadster - This thread is worthless without pics...and no not pics of you in tighty whiteys!!!

Me, personally....I think I know a way to keep it real!
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

great that will work better be a post in the about Banjo narrowing

and again not saying what is and what isn't ,,, just lets not over look cause something better came along

 

I go back to some wisdom handed down from a boss long ago.

The buzz phrase of that year was "out of the box". I wanted to try some weird things to improve stuff. I wanted to go outside the box. He paused for a moment and explained that the box walls had been established by tons of really really smart people trying to conquer the same problem. And the box was in fact much bigger than I imagined, there would be no going outside the box.

Realistically, we're working with old technology here. Even stuff that we consider radical today was (mostly) all tried by professional race teams and custom wizards of past eras.

Those guys have established an awful big box for us to work in. Sometimes there's no need to spend your own time/money to prove what's already been learned.

But then again you'll never achieve greatness by following what others have done.

Sticky ain't it? No good answers but always interesting to think about.

 

I'm workin on it but my scanner has been taking a dump as of late. It's not for a Banjo...but it's a universal idea and just as good.

 

I agree that hot rodders were allways looking for a better way to to build their cars, mostly faster and cheaper. I drive my car(s) on the LA freeways and find that within reason I need to consider some upgrades. My A has 40 Ford juice breaks which stop it just fine, so with all of the people asking me if I will go to disc's I just say I don't need to, my brakes are '50's traditional. I have safety glass in the windows and seat belts, but try to stay traditional as I know it. But I still, and always will, find that everybody's definition of traditional varies.

 

I'll buy evolution to a point. I was talking to Buzzard about his A this weekend at the Flyrite open house. I was saying how much I liked it and how it all worked together. He pointed out his front radial tires and alternator with a shrug. I told him I didn't see those as detracting from it. I saw it as a period car with updates. He said he looked at his whole car as one a kid with little cash would have built in the early sixties. That kid would certainly snatch an alternator if he could get one and he would have it chromed just to advertise that he had something state of the art. Radials were available and any rodder would have jumped on them if they could get 'em.
I think that makes sense, but I can't bridge the gap to an S10 frame swap or a late model EFI motor. EFI on an old motor, maybe, depending on the packaging, but an LS1 just breaks the time line too much.
Personally, If you want to build a hotrod, I say build one. If you want to LOOK like you did, use a S10 frame swap.

 

In a general sense, I believe there are many folks on the HAMB that can provide not only general answers, technical info and fabricating advise.

Where I often see problems is how the poster presents the question. I read way too many short questions with less that enough information about the subject.

In the case of the narrowed early Ford banjo rear, I would have included that it was going to be used in the recreation of a period correct, short wheelbase dragster that originally was built with a banjo rear end. By wording the question in such a way, hopefully only folks with pertinent information would respond.

 

I think that one of the reasons people don't "build them like they used to" is availability of parts. I don't mean so much during the build, but later on. If you plan to drive your car much, you have to consider what happens if you break. It ain't gonna be easy to find narrowed banjo parts at the local auto parts.
Hot rodders have always upgraded to newer stuff, and not always because it's just better, but often because it's what's readily available.
And as far as the term traditional, it covers a pretty broad spectrum when you stop and analyze it.

 

In one or two I saw ,,the posted did say that was the plan then folks dove right into the ,,"to weak" or getting your bits blow apart by the rear failing.

Thus the support of the 'newer' part,,,and again I can understand the points made,,but it seemed that was where any positive info kinda ended

easy ?? lol when have cars ever been easy
rare is it a car breaks down close to any part

and not for nothing,,if its all about 100% reliable buy a new car


Narrowed rear is for a Dragster and that something that will always break parts and at the track,there is no running to NAPA

Old and new parts alike ,,there lifetime and reliability also depend alot on there maintainance and ussage

 

I've often thought about this as well. Funny, where are more than 1 '32's running around "back in the day" with IFS out of a Chevy. The guys that where doing this were certainly thinking ahead of the curve and looking for the best parts available of the day for their car.
Today, most on here would jump all over a guy for wanting to put Mustang II IFS under their car.

The guys with that mindset certainly weren't getting bogged down with older teechnology.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I've also seen some "traditional" cars in which the builders only reference to "traditional" was what ever reference point they took from one of the many magizines that came onto the scene the same time they did. Get my drift, here?

For example: take a guy like Doane Spencer. His '32 roadster is seen by some as the iconic '32 roadster. Doane tried all sorts of new and differnent parts to suit the purpose that the car was going to do at that time. Road race or just look plain bad ass.

To me, this is tradition or traditional. Doing what you can with the best parts you can find or afford.

Someone here said this and it has always stuck with me: Let tradition be your guide, not your jailer. Just my 2 cents.

I'm affraid too many cars don't get finished because tradition has gotten in the way.

I love traditional cars and I'm currently building one. I also except and love cars that have tte spirit or threads of tradition, but are willing to take a different road because it suits them and their build.

My response doesn't answer your question really. I guess I kind of ranted a bit. I think others nailed it right on.

Good topic to bring up.

 

You've obviously been around the block. So you've undoubtedly been in the following situation........

Somebody asks an opinion, and everything about what they're doing just doesn't jive at a basic level from everything you know. Like somebody asking about machining a 4bbl oldsmobile intake to fit a small block chevy.

Now if you're trying to help them out what do you do? Do you give them the best possible machining advice and offer to help layout the cuts and welds? Or do you gently prod them toward a decision making process that seems to be better use of available resources?

A lot of times the person offering advice can't really answer the technical part of the question in good conscience. They're really not helping you, because in their opinion your plan causes more risk than benefit.

Therefore with quality advice, quality questions with context included are super, extra, quadruple important. Sometimes I get kinda jerky about low quality questions, and it's really because decent answers can only follow detail and context, they can't lead. And cause I'm kinda jerky

 

Ok I kinda get that and very good point

 

I think I came along when the major changes were just coming in.My first car was a stock model A in 1956. My first experience working on it was to change out the rear end. [caused by 'peeling out']. After I fixed that I found out I had knocked out a tooth in low gear.[take out rear end again] Then after that I found I had a broken axle key in. In each case I found parts ok, however it wasnt cheap. A used trans was $25, rear end $25, axle $5. [Model A cost $100.] not to mention the hours spent by a 16 year old working on a old Ford for the first time My experiences with engines were not any better, four banger needed a rebabbited rod, flathead V8,s were the worlds best heater, and the mechanical brakes were an experience that made me keep safe braking distance to this day.Then my buddys full house flatty duece roadster was blown off by a 57', 270 chevy. So To put things in perspective in 1958 I was ready to accept the 'untraditional' era with open arms.

However I have to add here, I still want most of my oldtimer cars to retain most of the chassis and body to be able to keep the 'feeling' and character of of an old car. And i wont even try to best a modern car in performance. just my .02 cents