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Projects Toymaker's Twin Engine Dragster Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Toymaker, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Thanks Roc I'll see what I can do..............Carl
    let me know what angle the crank is at if you can
     
  2. Kreepea_1
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 451

    Kreepea_1
    Member

    Great Post! I've been facinated with this set-up from the first time I saw a picture of Eddie Hill's rig. I've been puzzle by the mechanics to get this set-up operational and now the mentioning of the reverse rotation crank and gear driven cam is shedding some light on the process. Thanks for sharing, Toymaker.
     
  3. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    The Isky reverse rotation cam is for a standard rotation engine, different valve timing although their gear to gear drive would work with a reverse cam like mine, I had originally called them.

    WOW..........WOW! I thought I was CRAZY:D
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  4. if your reversing one engine would a revers rotation gear drive not make the cam turn in the normal rotation making it necessary to run a revers rotation cam such as a boat type thing or am i confussing myself
     
  5. landseaandair
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,474

    landseaandair
    Member
    from phoenix

    I had another Hmmm moment. When you link up the two engines, you will probably have to phase them to keep the firing sequences even and 90 deg. apart. When they place them inline, the rear engine no. 1 would fire after the front engines no. 2, 90 deg. apart. You've probably already considered that, but just in case, I thought I'd mentioned it.
     
  6. landseaandair
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,474

    landseaandair
    Member
    from phoenix

    Also, I'm far from an expert and may be incorrect as far as the firing order, deg. thing goes.
     
  7. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    Put blinkers on it so you can drive it to work! Seriously, that is a cool idea and I can't wait to see it finished. It looks like you have a lot of hurdles to overcome but appears you know what needs to be done. Good work and keep it up

    jesse
     
  8. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    For phasing, I think it's 45 degrees for a 16 cyl.
     
  9. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,716

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    My guess would be, that having both engines fire in sync would be easyer on the ring gear teeth.
    Giving a more even pressure on them through the firing cycles.

    Having them 45deg apart ( 720 : 8 = 90deg 90 : 2 = 45deg ) would probably sound best...
     
  10. The Hank
    Joined: Mar 18, 2008
    Posts: 779

    The Hank
    Member
    from CO

    Ya going to chrome the front one? I don't think I'M alone when I say I'M looking forawrd to seeing this done. Youtube's of smoking tires!
     
  11. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA


    It gets confusing I know, but here's what I (think:D) I know. The engine that will run backwards uses a gear to gear cam drive that will turn the cam in the normal rotation, the beauty of this is the dist and oil pump will work without modification, the cam is special and I let Clay Smith handle that.




    I'm not sure if I want it firing 45 degrees (no cyls fire at the same time) or 90 degrees with two cyls firing at the same time. I'm thinking the 90 dgree motor would sound like a big V8 and the 45 degree motor would sound like a V16.


    HA HA HA, there won't be much Chrome:D
     
  12. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Got the front engine plate roughed out and with everything tightened up I have .055 clearence between the teeth. I haven't drilled the Dowel Holes in the plate and the holes are dead on so I could drill one engines mounting holes out to 7/16 and move the engines together another .030 before the dowel holes are drilled. I dunno, time and some stripped teeth will tell:D

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Looks good Rocky! Do you find time for your job? Ha Ha!
     
  14. Blind Elwood
    Joined: Jul 1, 2010
    Posts: 229

    Blind Elwood
    Member


    Fire them 10 deg apart if you want to keep your parts breakage low.
     
  15. Just a thought if you go 45 deg your power pulses will be evenly spaced and less strain on the gear teeth at 90 you will have double the pulse on the teeth (or strain) just a thought....................
     
  16. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Toymaker:
    I have only briefed your thread given time lately. But way cool build.
    Anyway when I was thinking about this and thought these guys might be of assistance to you

    http://www.meziere.com/displaycategory.aspx?id=111,112,113

    They are great people and make the best billet (that unHAMB'y word :p)
    flex plates. Not sure what tranny you are using but some info nonetheless.
    They did not have this luxury back in the day.
    With the driveline coupled to one engine the other engine is just a slave. But boy there is some moments of energy between the interface when there is a hicup. A friend of ours was looking into a 2 engine FED and the engines were different. To be short with this set up one engine acted as a governor sort of speak the owner related. It did not necessarily hamper power because it had less. Does this make sense:confused: Cause I was pondering it for days..
    Good luck to you and happy holidays
    Luke
     
  17. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

    Man this is coming along nice. I cant wait to see it all come together.
     
  18. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,733

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You ARE a sick puppy!! I love it!! Get good advice from Ivo?
     
  19. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,212

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Now would be a good time to figure out the center exhaust system just in case you need to move things around. Ivos 4-engine car had 2 of the middle pipes go down instead of up like the rest to get things to fit and since SBC's have siamized exhaust ports in the center you might have to do the same.
     
  20. Have you put the cylinder heads on the center bores yet (with the adapter plates on) just to make sure everything fits AND you can get in there to change plugs and tighten up the header bolts?

    The idea mentioned of running the exhaust tubes down the middle of the engines sounds cool. You could run straight tubes down the center with a flange on the ends. Front 4 cylinders connect to pipes that bend and goes under the oil pan to the driver side...then the back 4 cylinders go to the passenger side.

    Might help keep the exhaust fumes from blowing in your face and maybe make the center cylinders easier to get to for plug changes (because you could disconnect the pipes and remove the headers)
     
  21. yeah i kinda get the cam going in the opposite direction its just a matter of timing i think its starting to hurt my head just thinking about it i hope it all works out ok and obviously you will you tube the starting of the floor mounted engines
     
  22. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    That should be right.

    Of course a V 16 should sound like a large V8 turning twice as fast (i.e. 5000 should sound like 10,000, hmm Mazmanian anyone? :D ).
     
  23. Back in the day when dual engines were popular there was at first a lot of trouble with bad vibes. I believe it was the Golden Greek who in frustration unsynched his motors and that was the end of that problem from then on. I may even have the article where he tells about it during the interview. But then he is still at it. Someone could just ask him. Sometimes we ourselves complicate things that were not complicated.

    Don
     
  24. DRUGASM
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,795

    DRUGASM
    Member

    Well,......I love burnouts. I am looking forward to watching this make smoke at Eagle Field. Already a "cant miss/wont miss" event,....this will make it even better.
     
  25. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    No I haven't heard from Ivo, Thanks for the encouragement!!

    I did check with a piece of tube I have before I drilled the mounts and I'm (pretty:D) sure I can get all 8 tubes up. Ireally like the idea of the tubes pointing down and out but the simplicity of short "UP" Zoomies win out. At first I thought the ports would be straight across from one another then I remembered that the LH head is forward of the RH, giving me added clearence. HOWEVER you guys are right and something I need to make sure of!

    That's what I'm talking about!!!!:D Your Responses are VERY Appreciated, there's so much knowledge on the HAMB and may very well save me some trouble;) Thank You! Rocky
     
  26. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Don, just to be clear, do you mean he only had one cyl. firing at a time, 45 degrees as I understand it? And what kinda gear clearence do you guys think I should shoot for? I have .055 now but I think I'm going to tighten it up to around .030, the engine will only run ???? a minute at a time.
     
  27. Blind Elwood
    Joined: Jul 1, 2010
    Posts: 229

    Blind Elwood
    Member

    Toymaker,


    at 45* your asking for bearing and flywheel trouble.The crank harmonics are all wrong with 16 firing pluses. Stick with 8 long firing pulses @ 10* apart.

    Elwood
     
  28. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Elwood, I think I uderstand you, you mean after 1 cyl fires have 1 cyl on the other engine fire 10 degrees after it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2010
  29. Mitchell Rish
    Joined: Jun 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,366

    Mitchell Rish
    Member
    from Houston MS

    IVO did this with the twin Bufford rail . He wound up hard chroming the cranks but that is about it. STILL VERY VERY KOOL--- CONTINUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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