Projects Toymaker's Twin Engine Dragster Build

Great fun!
How about doubling the flex plates and ring gears on the flywheel - twice as much tooth contact area, twice as much strength.

Push start I guess?

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Roo! The Flywheels will be machined for 2 ring gears each in the future if reguired, I'm leaning toward the Fuller style Cage used on Ivo if for no other reason it looks right. Starting may be an issue although I hope a good gear reduction starter will start the 2 engines.

 

I worked at a speed shop in Houston way back when and we competed against Eddie several times. He was always an upstanding person and so was his wife. I don't remember the details of his flywheel setup but I do remember the twin engine drive that was in Tomy Ivo's Buick.

Ivo used two very thick wheels with large gear teeth machined into them. Both engines were bolted to motor plates on both ends and the plates were bolted to the chassis. The drive to the rear wheels was through an old Ford box into a banjo rear end with a very short axle on the left side.
We campaigned the car for a month in the Summer of '61 and tossed a rod in the left engine and burned up the clutch twice. The car was built mostly for exhibition and the engines were basically stock with 1/2" stroker cranks.

Twin engine cars were referred to as "sweet music and double trouble".

 

Cool Project, I am insanely jealous.

The engineering is going to be a trick (the fun part in my humble opinion). I would look at making the ring gears as strong as possible. In the picture in post 22, it looks like that ring gear is an inch thick. You will need that kind of surface area to transfer the 350+ (maybe much more) horsepower that left hand motor is going to be putting out. A starter motor only puts out a few horsepower for a couple of seconds, so it isn't a good comparison. Make sure the blocks are bolted together very rigidly so the proper gear mesh is maintained. Have you looked at unlimited tractor pullers for coupling ideas? Alot of those guys are running mulitple high horse motors. Maybe they have some good coupling ideas.

Could you use a front 4x4 axle? Say a Dana 44 or 60. Some of the early ones had really wicked offsets, and there are kits out there to remove U-joint ends and weld in regular rear axle outer bearing carriers. Might save you a little dough than having to custom build an offset rear axle.

Also, keep a good eye on your oil pan orientation and make sure there is enough oil to keep the pickups submerged when the engine is running. Windage may push the oil away from the pickup with the engines mounted at that kind of angle. May be a good place for a dry sump and remote oil tank

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Thanks for the feed back guys, I got the fever bad! A couple of drawings, one off my desk pad at work

 

Keep it alive Roc.................

 

Ivo's 4 engine car's oil pans.

Issues to consider is how to keep the gears lubricated and since the contact pattern of the gear teeth is small, any track or tires with "BITE" will rip the teeth off do to the load.
Still a fun project.

 

Very cool Rocky! I'll be watching this thread. I was thinking a couple of years back about a twin but inline sixes, I like Y-Blocks but two 223s would be neat. Maybe after the LSR Uni is done we can get one togeter and run you at Eagle.

 

this car is going to be phonaminal when done

 

Here's some inspiration for you Rocky. Get youself a glass Fiat body and build a coupe like Don Hampton's. This car was pretty successful, and held it's own running for T/E at LIONS in the 60's.

 

Gonna be watching this, wanted to do a twin thing for a long time now, was leaning towards a hurst hairy type build and a have about 9 transaxles and 3 455`s saved, but after seeing your plans I`am not sure, were there any olds powered twins?

 

And ended its life in Australia after Don converted it into a Corvette flopper and managed to t-bone Jim Read's Mustang at Surfers Paradise.

Roo

 

I agree this will be a good one, I seen one inline twin use a small block chev coupled to a big caddy before, anything is possible.

 

Dean, the Fiat would be awesome however I really prefer the Modified Roadster look, and damn if I didn't miss one right here on the HAMB, and it was FREE! I think a T body would help cover the "Wideness" (if that's a word) of the drivers compartment. As far as lubricating the ring gears I'm gonna give it a go dry, maybe with some high tac grease like a chain lube as the engines won't run very long at any given time, if there is a problem I'll look into somesort of coating. "O" and don't worry about bite, Eagle Field don't have any

 

This is going to be an awesome build, I'll be watching this one for sure!

 

Has anyone ever thought of using two diffs side by side each locked with a spool.
Kind of a "double barreled" rear axle banjo.
You would then have two short tail shafts that turn in the same direction.
That would simplify a lot things, because the crazy fully locked double diff housing and three cut down and re splined rear axles would be the ONLY non standard parts required.

 

Ok, good. 'Cause I thought you were going to run with stock flywheel ring gears and I could hear things breaking. Carry on

 

From the beginning, I love the way your mind works Rocky.

Watched that car run at San Gabriel...that's what it's all about.

What he said...the engineering works, you aren't traveling into unknown territory.

Always loved the look of the top one!

The roadster kicks ass...you are one sick puppy Rocky...I think we have the same illness.

 

Two 223's? hmmmm.... I have quite a few layin around.......

Question... Could the same method of mating the engines together hold up in a street car?.. I'm not talkin' two blown V8's pushin' 400-500hp each... I'm thinkin' more along the lines of two inlines.. say.. 223 Fords, or 218 Mopars, couple carbs a piece, headers, mild cams, and at most .030 over, with some head work... in the 200hp area a piece... maybe.. mesh 'em at the fly wheel, and run 'em through a beefed up trans? (say T5, or GM auto...) and an offset rear like the quick change that was pictured, but probably a Dana, 9inch, or maybe a reworked olds rear...

Just wonderin'...

 

The gears meshing without being lubricated for long lengths of time would be a concern.

 

Looks like a fun project, keep the story and pictures coming...

 

Rocky, you need to talk with Tom. He's a great guy, and loves to talk about "back in the day". He and Kent Fuller engineered his twin, and he can tell you what you need to know about coupling and phasing the crankshafts. He still lives in the same house he bought when he was 16!

 

what if you ran 'em through a trough of sorts? ex.. seal 'em off with some sheet metal, turn the bottom covers on the bells into the "trough", fill with lube of choice... I would think that would be sufficient.. guess it'd be like splash oiling...

*edit* just lookin' at a 223 block under the bench, to keep the engines vertical instead of tilted the inside "ears" on the block would have to be cut down, and the bell housing either modded, or just build one from some steel plate.. could make a 3 or 4 piece bell/trough combo thing.. two halves for the top (one would act as a bell housing, the other just a cover for the other fly wheel..), and then the trough on the bottom... and maybe to keep things simple just run 'em through a beefed up 4spd top loader? I'd think one of the later top loaders could handle 350-400hp..

I'd think the bell would also be the only part that would need to be made out of plate.. and then, the other "fly wheel cover", and the "trough" could be made out of thinner sheet... add a drain plug on the bottom to change out the lube.. filler in the top so you don't have to take everything apart, seal it up with some good cork gaskets, should work... I dunno just thinkin' out loud... sorry for hijackin' the thread...

 

Covered earlier in thread, pretty heavy and I'm working with a (very) limited budget

 

Eddie Hill ran them that way.

One of the ways you can tell is that both his blowerdrives run the same way.

 

I agree with you, and MY OPINION is there is not as much stress on the teeth as one would be believe, the engines are working together. Now if 1 engine locked up, well, then I presume you'd see some teeth failure. If you have worked on a manual transmission you know how small the syncro teeth are and they carry all the load to the driveline and I've "crashed boxed" em (ground every other tooth off) and they stiil survive

 

Thanks Dean!!!!! Call made and message left.

 

Very cool project.

Thanks for posting this...

 

Rocky while you are talking with the legend.....maybe you can convince him to come out to the dirty airstrip and play?

 

Ivo doesnt wake up until 2:30/3:00 in the afternoon

"THERES REGULAR TIME AND THEN THERES IVO TIME"