I have a chance to pick up a toploader for the Edsel tomorrow, but it's an early unit with the 25 spline input shaft. Case tag is HEH-A, which makes it out of a 64 Mustang with a 260 according to David Kee's ID chart. I've heard that those are weaker than the later models and want to know if I'm just going to blow it up if I put it in. The FE is pretty mild. It has a fancy rochester 3x2 but under that it's stock heads, small cam, even stock headers at the moment. I can't see this car ever having more than 300-350hp. The car is being built to be a DD. It will get beat on, but not raced. So here's my questions 1. Is 350hp (and say 400ftlbs) in a 2 ton car too much for a 25 spline toploader? 2. Is the input shaft longer on the small block trans than the FE like it is in other applications? 3. Am I going to be pulling my hair out trying to find a clutch I can use on an FE? The price is right on the trans (about half the usual rate), it's wide ratio, and it's already set up for the forward shifter position. As long as the Edsel isn't going to crush it I want to get it. I'd just like to know if it's a waste of time. Thanks!
Call "Sticks Only" in Cali tomorrow at 818-768-4747 or 800-225-8824, they will know for sure if no one else chimes in tonight.....
The 390 and small block top loaders have the exact same input shaft, except the small block pilot shaft (the part that sticks into the pilot bearing) is around 3/8" longer. This is just the 'tit' that sticks out past the splines that fits inside the pilot bushing, not the splines themselves. The splines are identical on both units. Generally, an FE crank has enough room to accept a small block input, so the trans should be able to be used behind you engine without modification. However, some will say the pilot shaft needs cut off a little to be sure it won't bottom out in the crank. The 25 spline issue is a good one. Think about it. Wasn't good enough for a 260-289 in a lightweight car. You will probably break it.
Wow, it's that much worse? In my price range, it's probably going to be a 3 speed if not this. Spending a grand on the transmission, plus everything to convert from auto would really push the budget when the car needs so much attention elsewhere too. Can the input shaft just get swapped? A 28 spline replacement is not all that expensive if I can just swap it out. It would give me a good excuse to rebuild.
Yes, You can swap out the output shaft for the 28 spline one. But you`ll need to change out the tailshaft bushing too. But it`s easy to do . Also the best place I`ve found for rebuild kits is Toploader Heaven, plus he has a real nice tool kit and dvd on rebuliding them. Gasserman
I have never heard of a 25 spline input,they are 10 spline in either 11/8 or 13/8 inches.I think a 64,260 would have used a Borg Warner,T-10 which also used a 10 spline input.Mustangs,Falcons and Comets got T-10s until 66 unless it was a 271hp,289 in 65.HEH is a toploader and I don't think you will hurt it.I ran a small block toploader in my low 11 second, 65 Comet,347 drag car until three years ago,never broke it. ROY.
Why don't you just call David Kee? Or take the trans over to David? His shop is only 25 miles or so from Spring Branch. David Kee Toploaders 18975 Marbach Lane San Antonio, TX‎ 78266 (210) 967-4161‎
It was the output that was 25 spline. Input was 1-1/16 or 1-3/8 10 spline. Somewhere on the David Kee site is a short history that includes a bit of info on the 25 spline.
You know, I consulted his website to identify the case code and never even thought to look at their location. Heading out for a nice road trip up to Dallas to go snag this thing. I'm pretty sure I can work with it. Especially with that kind of local help. Thanks again guys! Will return this evening with pics.
Well I picked up the trans yesterday and I am very happy with my purchase. It looks immaculate inside and shifts nicely between all the gears. Even if the mainshaft has to be upgraded, I'm still ok with that. Looks like everything else is perfectly usable. Now on David Kee's history page, this is the only mention of the 25 spline unit: That's not terribly specific. I'm going to stop by their shop next week, so I can ask there if it's a big deal or not, but I'm curious. Anybody know the story? So now I need to track down everything else. What year did they switch from the early bellhousing bolt pattern to late? Are the 3 speed FE bells the same as the 4speed? How about the linkages for the clutch? There's a picture attached of the shifter mount. Is the forward location going to be correct for the Edsel? Finally, I guess a bit of an aesthetic question. I'm going for a late 60's early 70's look with the car. I've heard plenty of stories about Edsels being budget hot rods around that time since they were dirt cheap and FE equipped. What would be an appropriate shifter setup? I guess what I'm asking is what was the popular style at the time? It's a stupid question I'll admit, but details like that can either make or break the illusion of placing the car in an 'era.' I wasn't alive at the time so I need some help
Toploader gurus, advice needed ASAP 10 years later, in this case it would be as slow as possible! HRP
Ask yourself why after only about 6 months of production Ford quit making the 25 spline transmission. That transmission is priced attractively for a reason.
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