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Top Loader 4 speed in Model A

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by threelane, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. threelane
    Joined: Sep 14, 2005
    Posts: 29

    threelane
    Member
    from kentucky

    I understand that it is possible to put a Jeep 4 speed shifter in a top loader 4 speed that originally came from a Mustang. Has anyone done this or have any information.
     
  2. Mule Farmer
    Joined: Jun 1, 2005
    Posts: 1,508

    Mule Farmer
    Member
    from Holland MI

    do you meen the linkage from the jeep on a ford toploader.


    bret
     
  3. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,142

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The Jeep T-176, 177, and 178 were made from '80 to '87. They are the same design as the ford passenger car 4-speed, except for the top cover shifter and gear ratios. The shifter cover will swap over with modifications. I have a magazine article on it somewhere but don't have time to look now. You have to remove the stock shift forks and grind the case for clearance to drop the jeep cover in place.

    here's a page that covers the Jeep tranny's;
    http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/trans/t176.html
     
  4. Levis Classic
    Joined: Oct 7, 2003
    Posts: 4,066

    Levis Classic
    Member

    So is this tranny a direct bolt in to a SBF?
     

  5. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,142

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as standard Ford. The ratios wouldn't be too good for a hot rod though. Due to the low ratios and aluminum case, the torque capacity isn't as good as the Ford passenger car trans either. The stubby output shaft would be fun to adapt as well. If you're going the other way, and want to put a SBF in your Jeep, then its a natural. Except for oil pan clearance.
     
  6. Paul2748
    Joined: Jan 8, 2003
    Posts: 2,193

    Paul2748
    Member

    Street Roder did an article some time back on the Jeep top cover/Ford toploader conversion. If any body can come up with the issue it was in, I probably have it.
     
  7. I think it was Frank Otto that did the story and preformed the swap on his 40 coupe but I don't recall what year it was. :rolleyes: HRP
     
  8. threelane
    Joined: Sep 14, 2005
    Posts: 29

    threelane
    Member
    from kentucky

    You are right a friend has a paper back on building streetrods . It only mentions the article but tells that it is in Dec. 90. If you have it and could scan and E-mail to me I would greatly appreciate it.
     
  9. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    There's an article within the last year of Street Rodder that covers the conversion using David Kee parts...
     
  10. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    My dad did it havn't run it yet but it seems like it works good had to grind a notch for a shifter fork to fit but pretty much fits he is gunna run it on his 8ba with a merk bellhousing looks like a direct bolt up
     
  11. GT427
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 25

    GT427
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi,can't find anything on Dave Kee's web site or Hot Rodders in Idaho site ....any clues
    Would like to put a top loader behind my flathead merc engine in my 40 coupe.
    Fitting the top loader to the flathead is easy ,but finding a CJ 176 Shifter isn't.
    Thanks for any help ..
     
  12. GT427
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 25

    GT427
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sorry Hot rod Works Idaho....
     
  13. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,025

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Lots of T176's around. I read this thread in August and within 3 weeks I had found 3 transmissions in various conditions. A guy had an ad on craigslist trying to sell a jeep transfer case, so I emailed him to see if he had a T176 with it, turns out he had a yard full of Jeeps. He's a retired vet with some disabilities and works on Jeeps and boats in his yard to supplement his pension. He had one in a CJ something that he wanted 300 for, but when I pulled it I found that it was full of rain water from no rubber boot on the shifter and no top. I scattered it on my tailgate and the only thing damaged was some pits on the reverse idler gear and the bearings. He also had one in a Wagoneer that he said needed bearings. I pulled it too and he took 250 for both. I didn't find anything wrong with the second one. Both had the side pins that locate the shift lever worn out. A couple weeks later I saw a guy driving a Jap pickup down a street in town and spotted a T176 trans case sticking out of a bucket in the back of his truck. I followed him til he stopped at a gas station and asked him about it. He had been stuck in a mud hole and tried to speed shift from 1st to reverse and busted a tooth off the reverse idler. The tooth went through the cluster gear and knocked a couple teeth off of it. He was just going home from the transmission shop where the guy had told him 800 bucks to fix it and sold him a used granny gear 4 speed from a Jeep pickup. I gave him 20 bucks for his pile of parts.

    My point is, there are plenty of them around once you start looking. I'll be hanging on to all these parts until I get one put together and operating in my 29 sedan. Cool thing is, the short output should be very easy to adapt to torque tube drive.

    Now I need to hunt up an AA bell housing. I know where there was a yard that had several AA's mixed in with a lot of other early cars. The guy died of cancer and his family sold all the cars before I heard anything about it. All I need to do is find out who got 'em. I'm sure someone in the antique car club knows where they went.
     
  14. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 542

    RoddyB34
    Member

    I did a 3 speed Toploader to a AA bell housing to torque tube conversion ,,, image.jpg
     
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  15. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,025

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Oooh, nice job Roddy, what was the 3 speed from with that front face and a top shifter with back up switch provisions, is that more Jeep stuff? Speaking of shifter, that's sort of a short stick ain't it? Haw, haw, haw. And, what's the bearing retainer/ball socket from?
     
  16. Contact the Townsends in Inverell, they have them. Jeep or repops. Pete or John, I forget which one.
     
  17. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,025

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    I was just re-reading this thread and realized that I made an error in my opening sentence of post 14. I wasn't reading this thread in August, it didn't exist then. I was reading everything I could find on here and on the Ford Barn about using the T-5 and the top loader Fords behind my Model A engine. There are several threads dealing with this swap. I decided on the Ford transmissions partly because I have several and I'm familiar with them and partly because the shifter is farther forward and much closer to the Model A location.

    Anyway, like I said there are plenty of T176's around. You just have to go beat the brush to find them instead of waiting for them to show up for sale someplace. Also, watch ebay, there were several that showed up there while I was looking, some as low as 250 bucks and some that must have had forged gold gears.
     
  18. Brendan1959
    Joined: Jun 26, 2008
    Posts: 288

    Brendan1959
    Member

    I saw this picture in Aussie street rodder, have you got it in the car yet?
    Did you have to shorten the torque tube?
    Did it clear the cross member?
    Brendan
     
  19. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,504

    manyolcars

    I understand that this thread is about 4speeds and a 3speed, but both have a 1:1 in high gear so I used a 3speed with overdrive in my coupe. Its out of a 84-87 F150 and works very well. I made a rear adapter like RODDYs but used a 1/4" plate because I didnt want to alter the crossmember and the F150 trans is a little longer than the A. I still had to shorten the driveshaft about 1 5/8". I have lots of pictures
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  20. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 542

    RoddyB34
    Member

    image.jpg the trans is a 3 speed Mustang/Maverick type ,I wannted the F150 type O/D but they not real plentiful in Aust. and you got to get the right O/D ratio for the A model,,so I copiedthe info I could find on those conversions ,,shorten front shaft slightly ,,shorten rear shaft and cut spline for the ford universal ,shaved the extension housing as to keep rear bearing retained as original made a 25 mm thick plate to mount the ford clam shell and incorporate a shaft seal,,I think it will clear the crossmember ok being a 3 speed it's short ,,but driveshaft needs about 43 mm out of it,,I haven't installed it yet but am going to start this weekend so I might do a few pics,,,the shifter is T150 Jeep and bolts on with no mods,,
     
  21. Model A W/ Ford Ft170ft 3-Spd + Overdrive

    Hi, there's a guy in East Texas that's Done this Swap for 20 years. You use Stock Model A Brake & Clutch Pedal, bolted to Steel Bell Housing. He tells Me that on the Main Shaft. You first Spline the Shaft, & then Cut the Shaft to Length. He also told me to use the 27 perCent overDrive Trans, as its the best Ratio. I've Got a 1932 Ford Roadster Pickup, RUNNING Ford Flathead V/8 with Stock Chassis with K-Member. I'm looking for someone, That's done this Swap using 84-87 F-150 RTS T170FT OverDrive. To Stock 32 Torque Tube. There's a Company Called M.E.C. We're 1932.(Model Engineering Company) Owner Gene Sanders of Akron, Ohio. He's a Tool, Die & Pattern Maker. He makes & Sells the Trans Adapter to Ford torque Tube for $125.00. Anyway, I saw your Thread, & wanted to pass this info to You. Regards Dereald Millsap (903) 952-1933. Sulphur Springs,Tx 75382


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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  22. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Big D
    Are you still up?
    I may be able to help. Give me a call 530 675-9256 now
    Jim
     
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