Projects Tommy R Attempts to Build a Hot Rod Model A

Thanks, Landon! That would be much appreciated. Glad to see you here.


I just thought of something that I need to consider before boxing the rails.....steering. Admittedly, I have not done as much research here as I need to, but I do plan on a side steer setup. I'm unsure of the box I'll use or how mounting it will be affected by boxing the rails. I think an F1 box is the one to get, but if anyone has suggestions, please share your input. I believe I will need a plate that will square up the box when mounted to the angled rails, but again, I need to research this some more.

 

Picked up the motor and trans tonight. It's got an Edelbrock Performer intake, fuel pump, accessories, distributor (HEI), and a pretty mild cam of unknown origin. The heads are 291 Camel Humps so they have 64cc combustion chambers and I assume 1.94/1.50 valves, but I can't confirm. Here's some pics of the heads.




The ports are covered in carbon. The car's been running rich for a long time apparently.


Best I can tell, the block is a '73 truck 350. 2 or 4 bolt is unknown. Casting number is V0306TJZ. There's a small chunk broken off the back, but doesn't look structural.




The Saginaw came with a Hurst shifter for a 2nd gen F-Body, bellhousing, p-plate, clutch, etc.


Looks like a 2 groove to me. If so, that would confirm the ratios I posted earlier (3.11, 2.20, 1.46, 1).

 

Hey Tommy.
Your block casting number,on the bellhousing flange(3970010),next to the break decodes as either;
327cu. in. '68-'69 'vette,Camaro and other high perf applications.
OR
350 cu. in. '68-'79 Truck and high perf applications,4-bolt though some were machined for 2-bolt mains.

Head casting number(3917291) comes up as '68-'69 350 & 327 and,'67-'70 302 & 327.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, Mark! That jives with the info. I've been coming up with, too.

I'm interested in hear y'all's thoughts on side steer vs. cross steer. I was planning on side steer, but am open to suggestions. So let's hear it! Which do you prefer and why?

 

I think the steering is totally personal choice, I am going with cross steer on mine.

The main thing is correct geometry. Depends a little on the look you are after too.

 

Well, I was weighing out the pros and cons of each style and want to make sure I'm considering everything I should. Aesthetically, I think I prefer side steer because I like the exposed look of the steering mechanism. I'm running split bones so there shouldn't be any fitment issues. I also like that I wouldn't need to run a track bar up front with side steer.

But I'm sure cross steer has some advantages, too. I just don't know what they are. So I'd really like to hear from y'all who are running cross steer.

I guess the last question is this... Can I go ahead and box the rails now even if I decid to go with side steer later?

 

Just cut a piece out of your boxing plate where the side steer box would mount and leave that area open. Go ahead box your frame and get your chassis together. You can always weld the piece in later if you change your mind...
P.S. Leave yourself plenty of room to work...

 

Do I really need to figure out where my box will go before I box the rails? I'm not doubting you, but I thought this was something I could add later. Evidently not? I guess I have some research to do about mounting a box for side steer. I don't know where my motor mounts will go yet, nor what kind of column I'll be using. So many variables, it's drivin' me nuts!

 

No.....the steering box mounting plate can be welded directly to the plates. This is how it's done on most aftermarket frames made of 2x4 tubing.

 

No... Just don't box the area of the frame where you think the box might go... You can go ahead and box the rest of it.
You can box it all now if you want, I just think that it would be easier to leave that area open until you have the steering box mounted. Then you won't have to cut the boxing plate back out when you get ready to install the box...

 

Tommy R

You said "But I'm sure cross steer has some advantages, too. I just don't know what they are. So I'd really like to hear from y'all who are running cross steer"

A properly installed cross steering setup with a panhard bar will minimize bump steer.

Otherwise some of the steering setups commonly used on old hot rods as well as old cars in general had a tendency to try to pull the steering wheel out of your fingers if you hit a bump while steering around a corner.

Even while going straight when you hit a pot hole with one front tire the steering wheel would jerk from side to side.

Do a search on bump steer. You won't be sorry that you did.

Dick

 

Hey Tommy,
dawford's right,cross steer is more refined than side steer.That said,I went for side steer as I like the look of it.
If you go for side steer,mounting the box through the frame,I'd do as chopt top kid suggested and leave the boxing plate for that area until the box is in position,then trim it to fit.It was a real pain in the arse fitting the F100 box through my box section frame.Job would have been so much easier without the inner wall of the frame getting in the way.

 

To whom it may concern. I'm building a 29 Model A roadster from the ground up. If anyone's up for subscribing to my build blog, feel free. It's full of good shit. Really. http://29aroadster.blogspot.com/

 

Hey y'all,

Sorry I haven't responded yet! I appreciate all the input on this. I really don't have strong feelings one way or the other re: side vs. cross steer. Initially, I was planning on doing side steer because I felt it was more traditional. That's not entirely true, however.

After talking with Mr. Ford the other day I'm now beginning to lean toward cross steer. Ultimately, it seems like a simpler way to go and I'll be honest, that's appealing to me right now. Don't worry, I'm not compromising on what's important to me. But side vs. cross steer isn't a big deal to me so don't call it a cop out! And general consensus is that cross steer would result in a better driving car and that's VERY important to me. Above all, this car will be a driver and come hell or high water, it WILL have decent road manners!!

I also appreciate y'all bringing up the issue of bump steer. Fortunately, I'm pretty well-versed on the topic, but not too much when dealing with hot rods....just offroad rigs. So I'll take any suggestions/advice you all would like to share.

I guess my mind is pretty much made up on a cross steer setup. So my next question about it is how to locate the axle? Some folks use a dead perch. Some use a panhard/track bar. Some us nothing at all. I'm open to suggestions on this, as well....

 

I ordered my rear tires a few weeks ago. I knew I wanted 7.50-16s. But I was debating between 5.50's and 6.00's for the front. I finally went for the 5.50's and they arrived today. As you can see, they have a different tread pattern than the 7.50's. Is this normal? The sidewalls are the same and they're both Firestone "Deluxe Champion" or whatever they're called. Truth be told they look like the same tread pattern, but siped.

 

Id say start with no dead perch or panhard. I don't think you'll miss them. Ask Mark

 

The tires are perfectly normal. exact same tires im running on my a.

Bagged Chevy

 

Srb!

 

Yeah, Mark and I have talked about it. I might be fine without one. We'll see how it drives....one of these days.

 

Thanks, man. I was curious. I even asked the rep from Coker about it 'cause their site doesn't show any pictures of this tire at all....not even a whitewall version. I wonder if the 6.00 has the same pattern? If so, that likely would've been enough to push me over the edge to the 6.00 after all. It's not that big a deal, though...

 

LOLOL!!! Holy shit, I just saw this and nearly spit coffee on my keyboard!

 

Hey Tommy,yes,the 6.00x16 Firestone has the same design tread as the 7.00 and 7.50.That's one of the reasons why I chose them over the 5.60.
7.00x16 rear,6.00x16 front;

 

Well, learn something new everyday, right??

 

LMAO..Tommy...the things Hot Rodders get anal over cracks me up.I went the EXACT same thing as you when I ordered MINE..!! When they came to the house I thought .."Hey,this isnt right..!!".My EX GF just looked at me.."ARE you fucking serious..?!?!?!?" Your flipping out about the tire thread..?!?!?"" Well yeah I am..!! She shook her head and walked away...I yelled back.." Remember about those GD shoes you bought and took back 3 times..?!?!?!?!?" Hey Mark..I changed mine to that exact size too.I also called Coker and asked them about sitting for so long and are they going to get "Flat Spots"? Rep said "Yes they will but driving them and heating up will take that away...". I hope he is right.

 

I'd box the frame & run a Vega (or Vega-style) box. Mount it on the boxing plate as Sinister Custom mentioned.

An early Ford box, rebuilding it, & mounting it to the frame is more trouble than it is worth. They are cool on a dead-on traditional hot rod, but not worth the hassle on a cool driver IMHO.

JH

 

Also...... side steer requires a crazy amount of bracing to handle the forces put on the box as it operates. Simply mounting it under the dash on a nice little brace won't cut it. It really needs to be tied into the frame.

Space under the dash of an A is tight anyway.

Not really good pics, but this is my old RPU with a BMW 2002 box.







JH

 

No problem. Ya the 600s are more like your 750s tread pattern. but they look good. assuming your putting them on 16" 1940 - 1948 ford wheels theyll look like this:

 

I wish I'd known of the tread difference before I ordered. I may have gone with the 6.00s after all. But it's no big deal. At least the sidewall is the same and that's more important to me. I'm sure I'll be plenty happy with the 5.50s for awhile...

 

Dude...the 5.50's are gonna look way better overall. Size difference between the two can still be seen when driving down the road....the tread pattern can't.....haha.

Real hotrods have mismatched tires anyway........

 

Thanks, JH! I guess I should point out something, though. I called it "side steer", but maybe I got the terminology wrong? What I'm referring to is when the box is mounted on the frame rail and the drag link parallels the frame. Something along these lines:


I always described what you pictured as "cowl steering", but again I may be completely off in my terminology. LOL! But my point is that one way or another the steering box will definitely go on the frame rail. I agree putting the box under the dash would introduce a host of concerns....none of which I want to deal with!