toilet paper oil filter? any retro filters avail?

Hi all, we have all seen the vintage stilko , beehive, and frantz and other like bypass oil filters and thought hey that looks cool, but there is no way I am going to risk my new motor on the toilet paper roll filter element. Or maybe I am just saying this. I am ignorant on these types of filters. So this post is for those of us who may be thinking of using this type of filter. Thus....

1. What are peoples experiences with these filters? Work, don't work, engine blow up, etc. (this for fun)

2. Important next question: Is there a filter available at the local Napa or other good auto parts store that has the same dimensions as the toilet paper roll. What are the manufacturers and part numbers. (this is the helpful tech part)? Work not work?

3. Regarding question 2 above, are those "sock" filters substitutes for the toilet paper or is this just some different kind of filter that has nothing to do with the stilko, frantz type filters. I have no clue about sock filters. Work, don't work? Applicable to frantz, stilko type filters?


Why do I ask...I have a 50s period correct 51 Plymouth "hot rod" I am working on. I am looking for an interesting looking bypass oil filter, maybe a Frantz or a Stilko or beehive, for my Plymouth flathead 230. However, I now have a boat load of money in machine work for the engine and I don't want to risk it by using a cool looking toilet paper based oil filter unless there is a more modern or safer reasonably available filter that can be purchased when needed! Plus I have no clue if these type of filters with toilet paper or retrofit modern filters work well or not. My personal opinion is that they must be horrible, but this again is ignorance talking.

Hey all you knowledgeable experienced hot rodders, tell us what you think so we don't have to reinvent the wheel on this toilet paper roll filter issue. Thanks for your input.

Mike

 

Ooooops, I didn't think to search the webiste on this matter. I see there is some scattered info on the site. My apologies if you think this is redundant.

 

No experience except for a customer had one on an old Trans Am dry sump job back in the 80's. But common sense tells me....
If there was money invested in an old engine, machine shop labour, parts, etc. then I would look for top shelf filtration to protect my hard earned. No way would I cheap out on a dunny roll filter. On a reletivity scale, oil and filter isn't much compared to a rebuild. Especially if new parts aren't common/hard to find.

 

Agreed 100%, thx for comment. But they look cool and were period correct. So I was wondering if there was a fix out there to replace the toilet paper with a more effective less risky store bought filter. If anti.e knows of a drop-in filter to replace the toilet paper that would be great....effective...and practical. Plus it looks good and period correct.

Thx for your thoughts

 

Go to the local NAPA and ask to see their WIX filter catalog. There is a section which lists all air, oil, fuel filter elements by size and form. That should get you what you need and then you can pass on the info here.

 

I don't have any experience with these filters but the Wix catalog is available online. I have used it before and is very user friendly. Type in Plymouth for make and model and they have air filters for cars all the back to 1947.

 

I did some research on the internet on this subject a while ago.

Found out some people love them and some hate them. The people that love them are the ones that use them, the people that hate them have never used one and don't know anything about them.

Frantz is still in business after more than fifty years and there are other brands too. One kind is big enough to hold a roll of paper towels and is used on long haul diesel trucks and stationary engines including military equipment.

The filters themselves work very well but only partial flow. Somewhere on the net I found a thread by a guy with a Dodge diesel Cummins engine truck. He has gone 50,000 miles without changing the oil. Every 5000 he gets the oil tested, the test always comes back equivalent to new oil.

One of the manufacturers of the big filters shows a diesel transport on his web site that did 1,000,000 miles without an oil change using their filters.

The toilet paper makes a very effective filter especially if you can get the cheap paper. It is rolled tighter and is denser, making a more effective filter. The filter companies sell their own paper rolls but they are more expensive.

 

You could always run the stock filter in the original place and just run a bypass line in and out of the Frantz etc, keeping it empty with no filter on the fire wall just for looks...

 

"Somewhere on the net" isn't a very reliable source of information.

Any idea a$ to why a manufacturer of the$e filter$ would promote them?

Toilet paper filters probably do OK with the oil that flows through them, but they are NOT a full flow filter. Rather, they have a little bit of oil seeping through them to supplement whatever other filter might be on the engine. Years ago, when a lot of engines simply didn't have filters, they helped, because they did remove a small percentage of contaminants from the oil.

I'm not familiar with them, but did the original Mopar 230 six have a full flow filter system on it? If so, then I'd simply run some dummy lines to your stilko , beehive, or frantz filter and have the cool look with none of the mess. If not, then I guess a little bit of toilet paper filter is better than no filter at all.

 

Years ago a neighbor of mine;s dad sold the damn things and swore by them. Of course he swore like a sailer about anything. I checked into it back then and was told toilet paper does keep the oil clean indefinitely but the needed additives are depleted. Since all oil filters are made by just a few manufacturers buy the cheapest ones you can find as long as they say on the packaging: meets or exceeds all manufacturers recommendations or they are for a specific motor. You can pick 'em up for less than 3 buck.

 

plymouth1951 - Checkout 49ratfink's December 2006 Frantz toilet paper oil filter... anybody use them? thread.

 

Cheaper to buy oil filters then toilet paper any more.

 

Buying cheap oil filters ie Fram is like using used rubbers. Not very smart !

 

Hi all, Thx for all the info HAMBers.

I got to say though i am surprised that nobody knows of a sure fire Napa, wix, fram, etc equivalent for these toilet paper filters. So far, best idea is to ask for wix catalog and search dimensions.....a good idea. Also, if frantz is still around they should know some work arounds.....that's another source. Keep posting on the subject for the benefit of all of us.

Helpful info:
1. Link to Stilko website: http://www.stilko.co.za
2. Link to Frantz website. http://www.frantzoil.com

Happy motoring and holidays!, Mike

 

NAPA Wix etc don't sell toilet paper. What do you mean? Get a stock Plymouth filter and it isn't hard to figure out what element to use. Plymouth used different filters over the years and some owners added aftermarket filters of various brands.

The full flow filter is better than the partial flow but it's not a deal breaker. The lines on the motor will tell which you have, small lines like brake lines are for the partial flow, big lines for full flow.

With partial flow you use a finer filter. Full flow you can use a modern spin on remote filter, with a beehive cover if you desire.

Do you have a filter now?

 

Don't believe me if you don't want to. Do your own research.

It happens I have a Frantz filter I took off a junk car years ago. For fun I checked it out on the net and am convinced they work. This means absolutely nothing to anybody else so don't go by me.

My car has a paper filter on it now. So I know a paper filter works. Logic tells me if 1/40th of an inch of paper will filter oil, 4 inches should do even better.

 

Hi Rusty O'toole,

Thanks for your request of clarification. Maybe I wasn't clear. My wife accuses me of this all the time!

Here's the deal. I am installing a brand new hot rodded flathead 230 with all the 1950's bells and whistle accessories of the day, ie finned alum. Edmunds head, fenton headers, air scoops, wizzard dual spark spark plugs, etc and I am now looking for a cool period correct oil filter. While I like the period correctness of the frantz or Stilko, I am afraid to use them w toilet paper. Thus, I might consider using one of these filters if there was some current filter cartridge available from Napa or autozone (instead of toilet paper) that could be installed in the frantz or Stilko. Hence, my question......has anybody identified a "better" filter that can be installed in a frantz or stilko other than toilet paper. If so, what is the manufacturer and part number of the filtering element??? I just figured others may have done this in the past and could pass along the info.

Thanks for your input guys! Mike

 

*puts on Great Karnak turban*

The answer is... Eartha Kitt... Eartha Kitt

*opens envelope* What does an Italian geologist call his sample case?

What kind of filter did your engine have before? Full flow, partial flow, or no filter at all?

Do you have the original filter the engine came with?

What I am suggesting is if the engine came with a partial flow filter, use a partial flow. If it came with a full flow filter, use a full flow. If it came with no filter, you will need to modify your oiling system to use one.

Hope this is clear.

Now, if you will tell me what kind of filter your engine is set up for, maybe I can help you.

By the way NAPA etc still sell the filters for your car but you have to know WHAT KIND OF FILTER YOU HAVE.

 

I know, dumb idea....

If you want the look why not just mount the thing and make it look like it works but instead of putting oil through it put it through your stock filter?

Another thought, why not hide a modern remote type filter inside the thing?

 

Years ago, I went to work for a construction company. The owner had Frantz filters on every piece of equipment he owned. One machine had a 540 International engine with a 3 stack tp filter. It had been running for a few years without every having an oil change. I worked there for 13 year more and am a firm believer in the filters. That engine (one of many) had not had an oil change when I moved on. It had never had as much as a valve cover removed. It used 1 quart of oil in a work day. That was normal. Paper was changed every 40 hours. Oil was always honey colored. I would not have believed this if I had not been there and witnessed this.
Lee

 

The problem is you are in glendale. you need to find a decent auto parts store and someone that even knows what a flathead or L-head is. carquest or NAPA guys have a good selection and they still have those paper things called books, that they can look up stuff in. they make replacements for the the TP filters. I wouldn't use a toliet paper filter even if it was new. I would be afraid of it coming apart. The old filters are only partial flow and if they plug there is no big deal, the engine still gets oil. Take your filter housing that you want to use down to use down to your auto parts and find one that fits. There are several types. that will work. If not go get a chevy six filter housing. I know they have them is stock all the time i just changed my oil two weeks ago... it was a fram C4 or C4P (steel or plastic).

google says FRAM CP134PL for 1951 plymouth.

FYI wix-ac-fram, etc. are all made by the same manufactures. there are only a couple manufactures of oil filter. The differnece is material section and specs requested by the distributor. Besides that are stickers, packaging and paint. Its all about the filter media and rubber seal. Usually long lfe filter will use viton material for its sealing surface and the fiter media will have some heat resistant coatings.

 

my old tractor runs a partial flow filter.it uses a cartridge,never thought about stuffing a roll of ass-wipe int the housing,as i usually need that stuff for something more important.i dont recall the part number,but the tractor is a cockshutt 50.1952.

 

JohnEvans
Old School HAMBer

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 3,436
Re: toilet paper oil filter? any retro filters avail?
Buying cheap oil filters ie Fram is like using used rubbers. Not very smart ! ................................................................................................. Show me the proof? If the low cost filters do the job, stuffing more paper in 'em only restricts oil flow. Sufficient is sufficient and if factory specs are met that's all that's necessary. I'll bet you don't use anything but snap on tools and K&N filters, over priced, over stated and unneeded. The best air and oil filters are the ones changed regularly.

 

The Plymouth/Dodge/Chrysler/DeSoto flathead sixes when equipped with a filter at all used a bypass filter rather than a full flow unit.

 

There is a site:
http://bobistheoilguy.com
Where they're are as passionate about oil tech as we Hambers are about traditional rods.
Very smart people there have discussed this at excruciating length. Go have a look around.

In the meantime here is the engine compartment of my '50 Plymouth done up very much like what you have in mind.


The finned silver canister is a Stilko oil filter.
With a roll of TP inside.
Been using it for 8 years now.

Sorry for the GIANT pics, but these may be of interest:



How to rout the oil line:

 

Hah! Iwould not use a over priced K&N filer on a bet and as Far as Snap On tools go never bought any of those over priced thing either new.
Cut a Wix and Fram apart then tell me how good those POS Frams are.

 

Rusty you are killing me! I was just trying to get a paper or other filter media mfg and part number so I could go to Napa and purchase a more conventional filter than tp for my frantz without having to do a major research project. I am confident there are HAMBers out there that have dealt w this before. If not, then this thread may be helpful to those who like fhe look of the tp filters. It's true also that glendale sucks for autoparts stores......they rarely have or use the paper catalogs and they are not enthusiastic about helping w these type of projects! Long live HAMB!

Rusty, thanks for your patience and impatience. To answer your direct question, I have a stock disposable canister which is a bypass filtering system. There is an inlet and outlet on the canister. To change the filter I have to disconnect lines throw away canister and then reconnect lines to a new canister. I have no clue as to what it looks like inside...paper I assume.

I will be using a bypass filter in my new 230 flathead motor in my 51 Plymouth, maybe a Stilko or frantz. One thing is clear, I will not use a toilet paper roll inside it because I don't trust it and more importantly I can't be changing filter every 1000 miles...not practical for me.

Thanks all for your thoughts! Mike

 

Awesome motor pic and diagram. Thx

 

plymouth1951 -

I don't think you're going to find a "conventional" oil filter cartridge that will properly fit and work in your Frantz canister.

The Frantz bypass oil filtration systems are designed/engineered to use a (tightly fitting) roll of toilet paper ... not a "conventional" paper (or other filter media) cartridge ...

click thumbnails to enlarge​

 

Cut a Wix and Fram apart then tell me how good those POS Frams are....................................................................................I wouldn't cut a new one apart and waste the 3 bucks and sure as heck ain't gonna cut a used one up! I don't see what that would prove any way. Like I said, more stuffing simply means more restriction. Anything that can get thru a fram, wix, stp, tractor supply, etc aint gonna harm your engine any way. I'm talkin about street driven gasolines engine ya know and so was the asker. Just sayin'.