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Projects Today, in the land of Geometry idiots with co morbid spatial recognition issues.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 31Vicky with a hemi, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Looks like you are straightening it out for him quite well. I have to ask though, with all of that rework being done, wouldn’t you both have been ahead of the game to start with a fresh chassis?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. Yes, 110% correct on a new chassis.
    It would have been far better off in the end on many factors. I tried and tried and tried and tried some more. He brought his wife over and I tried there as well.

    The truck deserves a chassis dipped in Gorgeous too. It will be nice but old and scared. I told him the chassis, even if I do the best I can spending countless hours will be the only thing holding the value from top dollar.

    Every thing I remove is a visual representation of money going down the toilet - when he remembers paying to have it put on.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  3. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,558

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    The problem with customers [including good ones] is they equate value for money with "romantic parts". If you threw a zillion anodized parts at it, they would be happy.

    But what they're really paying you for.........Is you ability to measure shit properly [the unseen factor], and luckily for them you have a good grasp of geometry and can visualize the whole setup

    This is a good example of why generic "kits" from trusted vendors don't always provide the solution.

    This is good thread Steve [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [and a cheap lesson for others reading this]
     
  4. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 917

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    In the grand scheme of things..... for the cost of and shipping a Morrison chassis ( or others ) I do think he will be way ahead money wise. There are others less expensive but that is a hard pill to swallow cost wise for the average guy. Then a chassis will come the way they think it's suppose to be. Then you go changing it up to get ride height ect. the way you want it and the snow ball continues. I can definitely see his point to just have you fix it, obliviously he trusts you to do what needs to be done. Thanks for putting it up for us, many folks are rethinking their stuff now!
     
  5. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 5,756

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    I gather the owner paid a professional to undertake the modifications or did the shop only come in later? I've seen similar shoddy work down here where it sadly costs the owner twice as much to rectify someone else's stuff up. Sadly whoever did it previously got their abilities mixed up with their actual abilities. It seemed like a good idea (Price) at the time however it drove and handled like a POS. At least this time when it leaves, everything was done correctly and it'll drive and handle like it should have done in the first place.
     
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  6. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 22,658

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm going to say 31Vicky with a Hemi is the "professional" in this case even though someone else took the man's money to stick it together.
    As the photos show and others said, It appears to have been pretty well scabbed together and from all appearances the crossmeber was raised several inches in the frame to "lay frame" without any clue as to how it should be done. Even that bought from Welder Joe Hoffman group reject I have laying out back looks like a better start than trying to fix that cobbled up mess.
    Keep those photos coming I want to see where this one goes.
     
  7. The owner tinkered with it on his own for a few years.
    It went to 1 shop for a few years, then another for a few more years, then another shop, the third where it was finally painted after being there a few years. That's 10 years in 3 shops plus the owners tinkering. Couple months at the trim shop and now it's been here.

    It was here a just a few days, I made my initial assessment that it needed complete rework, "just get a new chassis" because everything is either wrong, and or ugly, and or old. At that point in time he was just expecting me to correct 3 issues. First was no start in crank position- it fired only when key came back to run. 2 throttle cable and return spring was jacked up. 3 ride height adjustment.

    I gave him a list of options and vendors and their prices. I reminded him that on top of purchasing it also needed assembled, truck disassembled body swapped and fully mocked up. Then disassembled blown apart and painted then reassembled. BIG bill to swallow and a HUGE surprise. That swallowing and mulling and mental torment went on for several months. Around then I reminded him again we could build him a new chassis too and probably shaved a few grand off those sticker prices but ordering it would have be faster - but since he's been dicking around deciding so long it obviously didn't matter much on turn around time.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  8. I highly doubt many would bother.
    If the kit manufacture doesn't care why would the end user?
    I've studied enough internet pics to make my eyes bleed and that's the way it is.

    Thanks Kerry
     
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  9. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 8,979

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    It really is a shame it needed a total rebuild. It's a good looking truck. But now it'll be both good looking and usable.
     
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  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,382

    belair
    Member
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    He's fortunate it got to you.
     
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  11. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,490

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    my mind is still struggling to grasp how bad the geometry was
    was that a bought x member set up or was it bought and modified that badly?
     
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  12. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,129

    trollst
    Member

    Damn, you do nice work and are knowledgeable, now get that 36 finished, I want to see it done.
     
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  13. I know right?!
    I see we Made the featured threads.
    Lots of looking and not to much talking
     
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  14. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 918

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hmmm, sounds like another business in the offing. Not gonna even try to start listing ad slogans you could use for this... :D . So - when is the Proper Kit coming out? :D .
    Thanks for the good how (not) to thread. Well worth the read.
    Marcus...
     
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  15. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,737

    GearheadsQCE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I see the problems with the front end 'kit', but what I don't see is the overdone rake in the only pic of the 'completed' truck. Looks like the rear wheel is about right in the fender opening. Not doubting, just can't see it in that pic.

    I did a good quality MII cross member on my '37 Chevy. What I had to change was the spindles. The supplier asked me if I wanted it low. I said, "Yes", thinking that 'not low' would be stock height. When I mocked everything up the chin was almost touching the ground. Stock replacement spindles got it up close to where it should be. Raising it further (with springs) would cause the lower control arms to droop. That'll move the front roll center up. NOT GOOD! Funny thing is that I thought I could sell my dropped spindles or trade them to someone for their stock height ones. There are a bunch of dropped ones for sale on here, CL and e**y. Everyone is selling them because they are 'too low'.
    If I can't get it where I want it, I'll have to cut the cross member out and lower it on the frame. It's close, so we'll see.

    As has been stated, the problem with that truck is that nobody mocked it up and took it for a ride before the pretty was applied. And, no one took the time to figure out what the changes in geometry would do. There is no excuse for that in this day and age. There are many inexpensive software programs that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about front end geometry. But buying parts is so much more fun than cyphering.

    BTW, I think you are on the right track to change to a cross steer box.
     
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  16. buds56
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 164

    buds56
    Member

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge and pics, pretty informative
     
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  17. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 918

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    OK. So it seems the basic engineering is wrong, instructions are wrong, installation(s) get done wrong. & yet every (almost?) mfgr get hi praise heaped upon him from magazines/other mfgrs/etc. For sh*t work/product that's dangerous to drive, esp fast or in twisties/autocrosses? ??????? & nobody complains? ????? This is normal?
    I'm glad you put up this thread, graphically demonstrating the "quality" available. I haven't done/owned MII type/etc front ends, but even so, none of my suspension books/etc would allow that kind of "design" . WTF? I must be missing something.... I mean it is late, n all. But still...

    BTW: You do very nice work.
    Marcus...
     
  18. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 1,890

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is a great thread, thank you for posting. I often hate it how hard it is over here to pass safety inspection with a car that uses a suspension which has been modified from stock, like 4 link rears, Camaro subframes, M2s. They want everything documented and proofed.But I guess bad workmanship and the hazard of killing yourself and others is why hey are so picky.

    You are doing a great job, and very nice work! It already takes a lot of thinking, figuring and measuring if you start such a build with unmolested, new parts... It is 10 times harder to fix, once everything, like in your case, is FUBAR. You frined and customer can call himself lucky he found you and you took the challange. My hat´s off to you.
     
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  19. doyoulikesleds
    Joined: Jul 12, 2014
    Posts: 211

    doyoulikesleds

    I only have one question why are we spending all this time on a mm2 front end?
     
  20. Spooner Clinton
    Joined: Feb 14, 2018
    Posts: 16

    Spooner Clinton

    "Tape measure? Level? I don't need no stinking tape measure orlevel. I got 20/20 vision and a coke bottle half full of water."
     
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  21. I spent the morning here replying to some posts.
    I chose to share a bout 3 hrs with my Hamb brothers and the posts are now gone.
    I Should have cleaned the cat box, better use of my time.
    Maybe even work on my coupe :mad:
     
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  22. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,278

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member


    had the discussion been on topic it would not have been an issue. I had better things to do this morning than receive a report on this thread, and delete all the off topic content...now to go shovel the driveway
     
  23. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,490

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

  24. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,737

    GearheadsQCE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It was not about the MII per se. Mostly about suspension & geometry and hot rod parts that don't fit or work properly.

    But, I suppose you're happy now.

    I will never understand why someone that doesn't like a thread has to comment on it. Just close it and move along.
     
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  25. doyoulikesleds
    Joined: Jul 12, 2014
    Posts: 211

    doyoulikesleds

    I think the problem was the axle didnt reach bolth sides but you watch next year a mm2 will be traditional
     
  26. Just let it go.
    Anyone can feel free to pm me and I'll help if I can
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC and loudbang like this.
  27. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,490

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    I have been completely absolved

    I said 10 hail Ryan's and sprinkled myself with motor oil
     
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  28. I don't think this would be offensive to anyone.
    It's down to girly work, thinking, and pretty stuff.
    I got something pretty cool planed for the gas tank straps :D:p
    I hope it works.
    Do you think I painted it the right color?
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  29. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,490

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    Got a dumb question.
    I didn't have the correct answer on a 4triangulated 4 bar setup.
    Can the upper bars mount wide on the axle tubes and narrow on a chassis x member side.
     
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  30. Ask sleds
    But you can paint them all sorts of colors.
     
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