Thanks bob. Its funny, I was actually already on the rockauto site and had the 2637 drums pulled up looking at them. I am going to the boneyard at lunch today to help a friend with something, they have a 1980 LTD out there. I read another post a while back that stated the early 80's ltd's some had 10x2 1/2" brakes that were small bearing and would bolt on. I am gonna see if they look like a fit, if so i may grab the plates and drums and try them. They use 481 shoes. Looking at autozone they are also finned drums though and are 10" and 96mmm height (3.78"). Do you think I should bother trying that setup if they are still there and complete? Or just try to find drums to fit my application I have?
You could always try the Autozone 3.78" drum first, make sure you can return them. I myself would be leaning towards the 2637 drum and change the shoes to a 2" width. The LTD option may work, but you've thrown your axles into the equation. The center hole may be a different diameter and the axle flange to backing plate height might be different. Measure the axle flange to the backing plate and take your drum with you to the 'yard. See if your drum center hole fits the axle. If the axle flange to backing plate dimension is the same, grab the whole deal if they'll part out a rear end. Bob
Well I scoped the rear at the yard, nothing would work that I could tell. Most were big bearing rears, and the ones that werent were 11" setups. the quick option is to ask my buddy for the brake set back I gave him along with a maverick 8". I checked the offset on it and its the same offset as mine. It will just drop me back to 10x1 3/4 brakes, but at least it would get me on the road now while i chase all this other mess down. Bob, the shoes on the car right now already are 2". I am going to see if I can find any 10x2 drums at parts store that may work. I dont want to order any, not having any idea if they will work or not. I kinda talked myself out of having the drums machined, because if/when I have to replace them down the road, then what? I will be back here wondering what will and wont work.
ct, sorry I didn't get on the H.A.M.B. yesterday to answer your questions. It seems to have all been covered by others. One thing to note: the backing plate offset/wheelcylinder combo is designed for a particular width brake shoe. If the incorrect width of shoe is installed, the wheel cylinder pushrods will be out of alignment with the brake shoes. Check this by looking from the top straight down to observe the pushrod direction: should be pointing straight forward and straight rearward, not at an angle. Adjustment: I prefer to adjust the shoes with the wheel installed (best to torque the lug nuts - 70# min to 115# max [Mitchell Manual 1971]), then tighten the adjuster until you cannot rotate the wheel. Then, along side the adjuster tool, insert a long slender screwdriver and push the self adjuster lever away from the starwheel. (if you don't do this, the star wheel cannot be backed off [provided everything is installed correctly]) Back off the starwheel approximately 10 "clicks". You will experience a little drag, Bendix brakes are self centering and this is natural due to their design. Again, adjust the parking brake cables before the shoe adjustment, and then fine tune that adjustment after the shoe adjustment.
Yeah, go with that 2637 part number or an equivalent at your local parts house and it will probably fit. Which should be the cheapest way to go. Bob
Thanks for the info von. I will check that when I reassemble, i have pulled the guts from the plates while I sort out the drum problem. Bob, I found the equivalent 2637 drum local, they are $65 each. Crazy! I think rockauto is $40 cheaper per drum than than, course they have to pay shipping too...anyway I am gonna pick one up and try it, if it works, take it back, order from rock and save some money.
I wonder, are they really mismatched, or it also sounds like because of my offset, they could be a matching set, just for a different rear end. Meaning if you put this same combo of backing plate and drum on a rear that offset further out than mine, say 1/4", they probably wouldnt rub. Since as mentioned previously, there are several offsets for 9" rears, this combo may work fine on another offset. I thought about lathing out some to fit, but down the road when they need to be changed, I am back in a spot on what to do for a drum. So I would like to figure out something "right" to do now, and know what I need for future replacement parts.
Ford used to be notorious for a myriad of parts combinations and "one off" year productions. Like I said earlier, you probably have a station wagon or HD application drum there. I would try your plan, get an idea of what fits and buy it from Rock Auto, or shop around locally. Bob
Speaking of the wagon, I decided to try and narrow down what rear i actually have (pretty sure its a 1957). The data I have put together is this. Mine is 57 1/4" 1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon 57.25 inches 1965-1966 Mustang 57.25 inches Mine has a bottom drain plug 1957 - bottom drain plug 1958-1959 - some had drain holes Mine has countersunk holes in the axle 57 - 59 Ford big-car axle - counter sunk holes in center of axle flange as opposed to the oval hole in the Mustang axle Mine has NO dimples On the '57 model (only) 9-inch rear ends there won't be any dimples on the backside of the housing, but on the '58 & '59 models there will be a dimple on either side of the flat band. Mine axle tubes are not tapered - They are 3" at the ends The axle tubes on these late-50s style rear ends (and the '60 T-Bird) all have 3-inch diameter tubes all the way out from the center of the housing to the flange ends, as opposed to the early Mustang's 8 & 9-inch rear ends which tapers down out toward the flange ends. So, with all of this data from various sites, it sure adds up to be a 1957 car rear end. Now, the only things I have found that this rear end would have been in is ford big cars (Ranchero and station wagon). The truck rear ends (housing) in 1957 were 3 3/4" wider than the car. The '57-'59 Ford big-car rear end's drum brakes measures 11"dia. x 2" wide. What does this tell us about my brake problem, no clue. But I know what I have now
Been trying to identify what backing plates I have. I think this may be it, or close, what do you think? i know its hard to tell for sure, but could be it... Bob, if it is it, the rabestos 2637 drum shows to be a match for a 64-73 mustang. Rockauto is $27 each (plus $20 shipping), autozone is $63 each. I found a undercar parts place locally, $36 each and picking them up today to test. Only $4 difference than rockauto after shipping costs. MINE A PIC OF ONE THAT FITS 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968 Mustang Coupe, Convertible or Fastback AND 1969-1973 Mustang and 1967-1973 Mercury Cougar
Your backing plate looks a bit beat up on the shoe contact pads (those 6 little oval areas), but it should work. If it was native to the axle housing, it should be have been an 11" backing plate. So someone swapped them at some point. The Mustang one pictured would bolt up I'm sure. Your best bet is to get the drums you've located locally and do a test fit. Please splurge for new wheel cylinders & hardware kits! And do use brake lube on all metal to metal contact points. Bob
The brake offset on the early '57-'59 rears is 2-2 1/4", and you may have drums and backing plates that are for a 2.5" brake offset rear end, hence your problem.
I am very sure thats it, I know my offset is less than 2 1/2. Its more like 2 3/8 though, because me, and another buddy measured it last night. Since the back plates are one it, we measuered from the face of the backing plate to the face of the axle flange and get right at 2 1/4...then you add the 1/8 for the backing plate. Anyway, its not 2 1/2 regardless, its just more than 2 1/4. The new drum didnt work, same problem. It is nearly identical in depth. I know what I am going to do now. The backing plates on there are a shade over 3/4" wide at the lip. I figure I need about 3/16" to stop rubbing. I am going to take that amount off the backing plate lip. then I can still use this same drum for a future replacement and wont have to have new drums lathed to work. Some of you may not like that idea, but I got to noticing the large variation of lip depths on them. Some of the early rears I was looking at last night had less than a 1/2"....So i think this should work good and still leave over 1/2" thick lip for strength. We also measured to be sure the shoes will still ride where they need to, and they will. They wont be dead nuts center, but they are still riding in the shoe surface area. Oh and Bob, I agree on the new hardware, I will do that. The wheel cyls are both brand new, bought a month ago.
Double bummer! I myself would be trimmimg the drums on a lathe or attacking the backing plates, I'm a cheap S.O.B. at heart. Another plan of action would be to get a matched set loaded backing plates and drums off a donor car or bite the bullet and buy new stuff. Bob
I am a cheap SOB right now to, which is why shaving a little off the plates is my choice. I can do that free. I called a couple of places yesterday about lathing the drums and they said they havent ever done it, or heard of doing it, but bring it in we will take a look. I decided right then I wanted a different plan. I dont think I will have any luck finding a donor car with my matching offset, and buying some that will work will cost hundreds. I will see how this goes, if it doesnt work out I will go to disc brakes and be done with it. The good thing though Bob is that once I shave the lip down a touch on the backing plate, the 2637 drum will also work. So that will be my future replacement drum should this all go as planned.
Do what Bob says... I personally have had adjustment problems before and the culprit was the brake shoe contact pads. Normally you can file or grind them flat unless they are so bad you would need to buy new backing plates. Those grooves that wear into the contact pads can cause the new shoes to return to the old position which will cause improper adjustment and a multitude of other symptoms. New brake parts are cheap in relation to the shitstorm that will happen if the old stuff fails on you... Scott
Ok guys, before this thread dies away, few more things. First, I bought all new hardware kit today and new cable links, already have new wheel cyls on there. If I wanted to get new pads, now or later, what to do? Can I use some other 10x2 shoes say from a 10x2 mustang or something, or do they need to be specific to this plate, which I have no clue what it is? The # on the current shoe is -308. I cant find a 308 shoe on the net anywhere, dont know what its from?? Hell for all i know the shoes may not match the plate now. Dumb question, but want to be sure. On the top 2 drum springs, why is it that some have one long (yellow) spring and one shorter fat spring. And then another set will have to longer skinny springs up top? I bought a hardware kit today for 10x2 brakes, the kit comes with 2 longer skinny springs for the top. My 2 old rears, and this current one has one long skinny, and one short fat up top. Does it matter?? Now on the bottom spring that attaches to the shoe and adjuster. Von mentioned mine was in the wrong place (further/larger hole). I have googled and looked at many brake setups, some are hooked to the shoe in the further/larger hole, and others are hooked into the closer/smaller hole. Which is right? I remember hooking mine in the further hole because the closer hole had no tension that way, and because I referenced pics of it done that way. I am driving this *($&$%( car this weekend. But it will be right, which is why it hasnt seen road yet.
The photo in post #40 and the link in #42 should be ok to go by. Depending on the application, you may get 2 long springs for the top or a long and a short. If it fits the shoe and hooks up to the top anchor, you should be covered. I think the shoes you have will be ok. But try to get all parts for one vehicle (arbitrarily a '70 Mustang or Cougar) so the parts play well together. Your backing plates are scored up from someone not using brake lube on the contact pads or driving the car for long periods with the brakes not adjusted. I've seen the shoes get hung up on them in bad cases. I've seen them with daylight showing through them. How do you plan to "machine" the backing plates? I'd be putting them up on a lathe with a face plate myself, anything else with a hand grinder will be tedious and a lot less accurate. I'd be tempted to get some matching boneyard brakes, drums and backing plates at this point, maybe someone here has a rear they are willing to part out. Bob
there are some videos on youtube for doing rear brakes. your trying to do too much guessing causing frustration. a manual with a diagram is what is needed to do this job. the local library has many manuals on this and you can copy pages. if i was closer i would be glad to pull up a chair and "oversee" the job and attempt to teach you for the next time so you could maybe help out the next person in your travels. good luck!
If you have the starwheel all the way in and you have slack in the adjustercable you have the starwheel on the wrong side.Leftside should have rh tread and right side should have lh tread.
Good point in case the parts got mixed up. If you take the slotted caps, the end of the star wheels are marked as RH and LH or just R and L. Bob
I'd be glad to pull up a chair and crack a beer to help if you were closer. I've seen people leave one side assembled and go back and forth to look at it as they did the other side, and this was in professional shops! I've just done so many of these over the years I could do them in a coma. Bob
Thanks for everyones help! I ground down the backing plates about 3/16" on each side and NO MORE RUBBING! I installed the new hardware and the brakes are working much better. I think I still need a final bleed but I finally was able to drive the car today. The brakes stop pretty good, just not a "throw you through the windshield". The backing plate pads were not in bad shape at all, the dirt/grime made them look bad. I cleaned and sanded them all down and they are flat and smooth. I also added some lube before putting the shoes back on. Oh and I did check, the star wheels were installed on the correct sides.
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