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Technical Tips for starting quickly with dried out fuel bowls

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by The Shift Wizard, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. ssrodder
    Joined: Jan 7, 2006
    Posts: 58

    ssrodder
    Member
    from NE PA

    I vote for the electric pump.
    Turn key on and let the electric pump work for about a minute or two. Starts every time without draining the battery from cranking the engine.
    Also, works as a safety device should your regular mechanical pump fail. Several years ago I was on my way to Knoxville from Pennsylvania. Mechanical pump failed about two hours from home. Switched the electric pump on and was able to drive until I located a parts store with a mechanical pump that had screws in the bottom so that I could rotate the mechanical pump to fit my location on the engine. Every car I build has an electric pump located back by the gas tank. Electric pumps work much better pushing gas, not puling!
     
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  2. hudson48
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 2,642

    hudson48
    Member

    Please educate me a bit more. I fit one of the small priming pumps(after the filter near the tank outlet).
    I will have a switch that I use just to prime the fuel. So it will push fuel past the mechanical pump diaphragm to fill the bowls. Should start without constant pumping of the accelarator and turning the engine over and over? Turn off the electricc pump and mechanical one takes over? And the fuel will still flow through the electric pump even though it is not operating. Fuel pump.jpg
     
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  3. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,346

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Yep.

    Or you can put it in the engine compartment. Both have pros and cons.






    Bones
     
  4. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 640

    Mimilan
    Member

    Use a cap full of paint thinners [it vaporizes quickly and doesn't flood the engine]

    With an Airtex type pump as shown in the video you don't need a switch to prime it.
    Just run some 2 core wire back to the pump.
    One wire [12v] is connected to the ignition circuit [fused] and the other [ground wire] is spliced into the oil light sensor.
    Turn the ignition on and it automatically primes with the oil light glowing.
    Start the engine and the oil light goes out when the sensor breaks the ground [and the pump stops priming]
     
  5. scrappybunch
    Joined: Nov 16, 2011
    Posts: 325

    scrappybunch
    Member
    from nj

    This sounds like a fire waiting to happen. A electric fuel pump running anytime the key is on, and the engine not running. What would happen in a roll over, or any of 100 other scenarios?
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  6. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 640

    Mimilan
    Member

    With the ignition on, not the key on [as in access position]
    This would be no more dangerous than a dedicated electric fuel pump wired into the ignition circuit.
    A 2.5 psi electric pump would not even bump the needle and seat in the float bowl [you can literally hold your finger over the fuel lines at this pressure]

    If paranoia is your main concern. You should buy a Volvo
     
  7. scrappybunch
    Joined: Nov 16, 2011
    Posts: 325

    scrappybunch
    Member
    from nj

    If I had a dedicated electric pump, it would be wired through a oil pressure switch and would only run when there is oil pressure.
    My main concern is not dying by fire, paranoia is over rated.
     
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  8. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 640

    Mimilan
    Member

    A lot of cars were wired directly from the factory. [mid 80's Honda's , Jags etc] And I haven't burnt to death yet from driving those.
    Just about all road racing cars rely on a driver to manually switch off the pumps in an accident [or the battery cut-off]
    My husbands factory built FR500c FIA/SCCA race car doesn't even have a switch for the pumps [You hear it as soon as the ignition is switched on]

    The 12v feed wire could be connected in series to a 2nd stop light switch, or clutch pedal switch [if you're that worried]
    Switch the Ignition on with the foot on the brake, and no oil pressure and it pumps. It won't pump under normal braking because of oil pressure.
    Some vehicles require the ignition to be switched on for the stop lights to operate which would make it even easier to simply take a 12v feed from the stop light switch.

    This thread is about the inconvenience of priming the fuel after a few days + of no usage.
    If you were that concerned about the last bit of nitpicky safety you wouldn't even consider modifying a car for more performance.
    To lessen your chances of dying by fire ,you can leave your car parked in your garage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
    alanp561 likes this.
  9. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,587

    Beanscoot
    Member

    But if it's an attached garage, and the car caught on fire while parked for various rare reasons like mice chewing up the wiring, you could still die by fire while in bed.
     
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  10. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 1,314

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Doesn't the extra cranking help the oil get circulated before it starts?
     
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  11. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,346

    Boneyard51
    Member

    How you wire your electric fuel pump depends on what you want it to do. If you just want it to prime your engine, just wire in a momentary push button switch. It’s done and very safe!
    If you want the pump to pump fuel all the time , it needs to be wired through a or combo of safety switches of some sort to avoid pumping in a wreck or roll over. I assure you, you don’t want to burn to death in a car. Seeing it, one time, will convince you.

    If you want to pump all the time and prime, combine the above. Simple.






    Bones
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  12. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 640

    Mimilan
    Member

    The irony is..........There are a huge number of Hotrodders that use electric fuel pumps [Mallory, Holley, Carter etc]
    If we could do a survey to see how many used a safety switch [mercury switch etc] I doubt if the numbers would even be 1%

    I'm not particularly fond of drilling holes in the dash for switches [or hidden switches] so I showed how to wire it, so it primes and switches off automatically .
    These pumps are so gutless, they can be left running continuously with the engine running [this also helps with vapour lock]

    As usual with any optimistic thinking crowd.......there is always a negative "scaremonger" that tries to throw doubt on everything with their "almighty superior wisdom."
     
    pprather likes this.
  13. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,078

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Hey Jim,
    So use a push button type switch starter switch to avoid being left on accidentally?
    I also have trouble starting after a few days sitting.
    And I never use ethanol blended fuel, premium gas in my district does not contain ethanol in its blend.
     
  14. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,078

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    No you dont want rollovers or major high speed collisions in 99 % of the vehicles on here, as you would be hamburger prior to any fire Im guessing.
    But fender benders or some less damaging collisions where a fire could start would not be fun as you climb out of the car to try and extinguish a fire onnthe side of the road.
    I actually don't envy you guys in these heavy populated areas and onnthe Interstate highways where everyone is in a rush to go nowhere...
     
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  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,862

    squirrel
    Member

    yes, that's the idea.
     
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  16. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,865

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Certainly. But everything built since EFI took over start in about 1 second and usually go 200k without a rebuild. So maybe it's not that big a deal?
     
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  17. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,119

    wvenfield
    Member

    My buddy has a small cup with a plastic hose attached to the bottom. I'll have to look closer to see if he made it or bought it. Pour gas into the cup and the plastic (hard plastic) hose into the vent tube.

    Pumped the carbs a little to make sure they were squirting.

    My carbs were rebuilt a few years ago and the engine hadn't been started in probably six years. Car started right up after a few cranks. Mechanical fuel pump.
     
  18. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,862

    squirrel
    Member

    my truck starts pretty easily after sitting, I crank it for about 5 seconds, then pump the pedal few times and crank again and it fires right up. But it has a Quadrajet, with a tiny float bowl....

    trying to get an AFB (or the Edelbrock copy) to start after sitting can take a lot of cranking. The float bowls are huge. Holleys have large bowls also, but they put the accelerator pump inlet at the bottom, so they start squirting after just a little cranking.
     
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  19. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,865

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I'm still having great success with Boneyard51s suggested method of cranking for a second, waiting 5-10 seconds, repeat. As I understand, and he explained, a diagram pump only pumps when there is no, or reduced pressure in the line. When cranking with an empty float bowl, the pump will only push fuel after the initial squirt has had time to pass the needle and seat, the rest of the time cranking is wasted.

    My Q-jet SBC has usually been starting on the third crank using this method. Previously, unless primed by hand, I was cranking it for 10 seconds at a time, and it started no faster than it does now.
     
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  20. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,078

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Okay went out to fire up Fargo (LA318 Carter BBD 2 bbl).
    Squirted gas into tiny vent tube, started instantly.
    This was after a number of days and garage temp 5c or for you US folks 41 above....
    Gonna plumb in electric pump to prime...
     
  21. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 1,314

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    It only takes about five or six pumps on a mechanical fuel pump to get gasoline from the tank to the carb provided the fuel system has no leaks and isn't letting any air in..
     
  22. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,346

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Remember guys, in a mechanical fuel pump the cam does not do the pumping, it only loads a spring in the fuel pump and then the spring the applies pressure to the diagram. How stiff that spring is determines how much pressure the pump will produce. Once the cam compresses the spring, depressing the diaphragm ,creating low pressure, the atmosphere pushes fuel into the pump. As the engine turns and the cam releases the fuel pump lever the spring takes over , the intake valve on the pump closes. The discharge valve opens, with the pressure developed by the spring pressure on the diagram. It takes a little time for that pressurized fuel to go through the needle valve and seat. Continuing to crank the engine, will actually take the pressure off the pump everytime the cam depresses the fuel pump lever. This method works real good, I have used it many times for many years. But , you have to do it a couple of times, as it has one flaw! It you happen to stop the engine with the cam depressing the fuel pump spring, the pump will not pump. But usually the next revolution will solve this problem.
    Also an advantage of this method, is you save your battery and there is less wear on the starter. Usually with my stuff the vehicle setting already has a low battery. This method could be the difference in if the vehicle starts or you have to get some jumper cables!








    Bones
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 10:52 AM
  23. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,119

    wvenfield
    Member

    I just remembered I had a pic of the thing my buddy has he uses to fill empty carbs.

    IMG_20201112_140139892.jpg
     
  24. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,078

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    That looks like "Shine" in that there jar.
     
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  25. racerlall
    Joined: Mar 18, 2011
    Posts: 95

    racerlall
    Member
    from WA

    tritonal was to appropriate a bottle of Arby's sauces and filling it with gas but finding those squeeze bottle is tuff now I just went to the local big box store and found new ones with caps aka ketchup and mustered bottles 11696466_10204825003086995_4043782866520884876_o.jpg
     
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  26. Harv
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 77

    Harv
    Member
    from Sydney

    That's gotta be some mighty nasty 'shine when you need gloves to handle it :eek:

    Cheers,
    Harv
     
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  27. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,094

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I tried the "crank a couple revolutions, then wait 10 seconds and repeat". Yea, it eventually works for me after 25 "repeats" and 5 minutes, with my neighbors gathering in the street wondering what all the commotion is about.
    I'm not saying the technique doesn't work for you. Obviously, if you say so, it does. But it's obvious to me it's not working that great for me. So I'll be adding an electric pump with a momentary type switch.
     
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  28. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,520

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The only problem with those is that ethanol eats them up pretty fast unless you buy the 50 dollar one that is allegedly supposed to stand up to it. I go through about one a year with my outboard on my sailboat. Not from overuse, but from gas causing deterioration. They do work real good when they work though.
     
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  29. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,346

    Boneyard51
    Member

    You must have some other problems, or you are the most unlucky guy in the world and ended up stopping the engine where the cam had the fuel pump held down 25 times in a row! Lolo_O
    Usually three times does it for me.





    Bones
     
  30. I have one that I got at Wally World for about 15 bucks and it has been on there for about 13 years or so, no problem... I really like it's convenience and it's much safer than trying to pour gas down the carburetor. ;)
     

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