video sounds like he needs some cheese with the whine. it seems to be a trend on this board,i dont know why im white,and i know what parts of town i dont belong in.i dont like it,but i know that's just the way it is. same with drag racing today. if you dont like the direction drag racing has gone,dont go in it. nobody is making you watch drag racing as it is today. you have your cackelfacklepopcornfest,gasser reunions,and nostalgia drags NHRA has corporate sponsorred soapbox race cars you have a choice,make it and move on.
I'll say it again, stand on your soap box and yell, no one cares, however; a "Donovan Hemi" is NOT the average guys motor either for nostalgic drag racing..... Iron blocks were for drag racing, weren't they?
Well he's rite and he's also gone overboard. I've been drag racing for 20 years so I was not around in the hay day but what I've seen is Drag Racing is the most fun when it's something that can be done by the average working guy and at the point that the cars get so expensive to build that it prohibits the average working stiff to compete, all the love is lost. It happen to me with Fastest Street Car Shootout stuff and the Pro 5.0 Mustang shit. While its affordable it becomes hugely popular and the minute it becomes "who has the most money" instead of ingenuity, it falls off the face of the earth and I'm sure it been like that long before I was even driving. Rite now I'd say the easiest thing to get into would be to build a gasser and go racing as it's popular enough to get a few cars together have fun and not go broke. Conder's dragsters are bithen but there no chance in hell the average working guy can afford to build an aluminum Donovan on nitro and compete with him or any current class of drag racing. Building some thing like King Chassis or Kerry and running at HAMB drags is about as close as the average guy is going to get to an FED in the hay day while still keeping food on the table. Gus
wouldn't it be great if there was a class with 190 inch WB front engine dragster cast iron small block engines Chevy, Ford,and Mopar. Injected or tunnl ram, with a 10 inch wide tire, something like to old Jr Fuel Class. Three guys should be able to run one.
There is, it's A/ND in comp eliminator. Cast iron blocks and heads, no collectors on the headers, auto trans only, fuel injection only, FED only, alcohol only, 3.5 lbs/cu.in. It's a neat class, but it's not cheap to be competitive. You have to run a very low 7 to qualify. And you run eliminations on a national index against other classes.
Never met the guy, from the sounds of it hes got WAY too much money, and is full of himself! And I'm not hidding behind my computer...Come to Canada and find me...I live in Sudbury...this is a mining comunity, and we know what work is up here, building cars is a hobby, work is work. I'm tired of these high dollar racers bitching about the good old days.....cry me a river....Somebody needs to sit that guy on a drill or a scooptram and then he'll know what work is really about.
I understand where you are coming from... and I know it is a hard pill to swallow for "traditional hot rodders" but bracket racing SAVED drag racing. I'm sure some guys who were actually there and racing will chime in. But "Building the badassed thing you could and go racing" IS "the man with the most money wins". The "little guy" in the 1970's COULD NOT afford to go class drag racing. The super stocks, Fuel Altereds, Front Engine Fuelers and "gassers" that you guys all love, didn't have enough appeal to carry all the small tracks through the late 60's and 70's let alone even the biggest tracks on after that. I'm sure someone here won a trophy or two in the 60's as a "class winner" in a stock class with their '57 Ford or '63 Dodge Polara... but years later, you'd be laughed at if you showed up to an event with an actual "stock" car. Why? Because racers want to win, and you win by putting as much power to the ground that you possibly can... speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? So this thing we call drag racing evolved... and then in the 70's you had the Nostalgia drags down in LA... and then later the Nostalgia Nationals in Fremont all through the 80's. In some ways, it was an excuse to dust off the old iron and "drag it out" for old times sake, and in other ways it was a backlash of sorts and an "F-U" the the "establishment" and all things organized... These backlashes have too gone through a saturation efffect of sorts... Take Nostalgia Drag Racing... It started out as guys dusting off the old iron... next thing you know... a little more Nitro, faster speeds, safer chassis and they're looking more and more alike... uh-huh. Then you have Cacklefest... I was there when it first started... the push starts, Nitro Fumes... and a few short blips... the HIGHLIGHT was the impromptu show down between Pure Heaven and Pure Hell during, I think it was, the second year... But seeing 100 or more doesn't give me the same fuzzy feeling it did the first time. Oh sure, it's cool... and I like to see these guys one upping each other on their restorations... But... So Tim... he's on to someting here. He's trying to capture "the dance"... the feel... the smells, sights... all of it that made drag racing fun to watch in the 60's. And he's the only one I know of wanting to do it up right and actually RACE. You see... there IS a whole lot missing from even nostalgia drag racing these days... Back when they first started running these old rails at Fremont... they did "the dance"... and let me tell you, it was as if I was transported back to 1965... it was FUN to watch! My prediction is that when other people catch on... Tim's deal is gonna be the greatest thing happenin' at the drag strip. And because it is closer to the real deal as anything that has come along since the 60's... AND because it'll be ran by guys who are wanting to do it are more concerned with history and putting on a show than they are with winning... it'll probably be able to avoid any kind of saturation effect any time soon. Sam p.s. Anyone remember the NDRA's "Manditory smoke rule"?? And some of you guys thought the 80's were lame... p.p.s. When are you guys gonna get out in the garage and build more of these! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M9rkF9nTcKA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M9rkF9nTcKA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Thats a cool video , I understand what he is saying , personally its my dream to run a nitro funny car in nhra because thats the big time . Im not rich but thats my dream and I will try my best to do it in my lifetime I personally think that something like that is still doable to a degree maybe not race at every race but it all depends on how you dedicated you want to be and what lifestyle you want to have and how you want to live . Look at guys like Al Teague on the salt flats that guy had no money but he dedicated his whole life to what he did . I do understand exactly what Tim Conder is saying but found it strange that he said that the guys who just want to race are ruining the sport um well its called RACING for a reason thats the whole point of it you know to win to beat the other guy and go quicker and faster . I am only 21 and I would love to go out there and put together an alchy car as a stepping stone to race until oneday I can hopefully go to nitro but I cant afford that so I am going to build a T roadster pickup (T-bucket for you non trad guys) and drive that and race that . Hot Rodding was founded on racing , guys who wanted to go fast and innovate. That side of hot rodding appears to be becoming a minority . Anyway cool video and I must admit that is one absolutely awesome looking Front Engine Dragster .
OK, We've got folks saying Conder has too much money and folks on him for spending their money. I don't believe it can be both ways. The Armageddon project started in 2000, so this isn't a new idea on Tim Conders part. Kinda sounds like the best and worst idea a person could have all rolled up into one. Here's a link to the whole article, if you want to check it out. http://www.bikernet.com/news/PageViewer.asp?PageID=226 A Conder quote from the article. "Anything truly cool is one step away from total failure," Larry T Lucky Guess--The Tim Conder Story A Lesson In Kustom Culture By Tim Conder with photos from Conderosa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Editor's Note: Below is a story from Tim Conder, and old friend, bike builder, custom painter and all around artist. After the story I'm running his bio to give you the entire scoop on the man. Enjoy--Bandit. IThe Conderosa Story There you have it. A taste of Tim's creativity and a hard lesson learned. Here's the story behind the man. --Bandit .............. The self- induced vacation led to the creation of ARMAGEDDON TOP FUEL. I figured I'd just make my own I landed 1.7 million dollars based on the idea alone, from the first investor I mentioned it to. This was in 2000. So suddenly I was a millionaire. Then two weeks later this person tells me she's been having horrible nightmares about me getting hurt or killed doing ATF. She writes me an inspirational poem and pulls the funding. Now I'm NOT a millionaire. I sell everything I own (except "Silver Bullet"), to start it, anyway. Then three other visionary young folks step up and we manage to get pretty far with the whole gig. However, it's attracting lame asses and wackos by the dozens and quickly spiraling out of my control. I'm forced to work with people I don't like and it ain't going right......Then it starts raining airplanes.
I don't know anything about the true money side or investors of his operation, but I can say this --> He has either made a lot of money and invested it in this, or he's spending somebody's money -- because it takes a LOT of money to just put one of those Donovan's together (especially if you're buying everything new and paying an engine shop to build it). My guess is that the engine cost at least $40,000 to $50,000 - maybe north of this if he has dyno time, has tried a few different component combinations, etc.. This is just the motor - not even talking about clutch setups, transmissions, ignition, etc.. On the investor side, if you're dumb enough to "invest" in a grass-roots top-fuel operation that is trying to CREATE a new/old type of racing . . . knock yourself out, because your money is going to be long gone. There is no way for profit to come out of this . . . just an endless money pit. Now if the money is yours, you know what you're getting into and you're doing it for "fun", fame or whatever . . . have at it. If he misrepresented his dream, the "upside" of being an investor, etc -- well, that kind of sucks. But if you're stupid enough to throw big money at somebody else's unrealized dream (especially since he's never built one of these cars, has no track record of racing success, and there are no 'events' that I'm aware of with big payouts), then you're not too bright either. With all that said, I love what he is building, love the Donovan Hemi and hope to see him run someday -- we'd all like to see the "glory years" come back to top-fuel racing. BUT - this whole thing is going to cost a LOT of money . . . every time you hear the whine of the starter motor, somebodies wallet will be empty.
Then you have Cacklefest... I was there when it first started... the push starts, Nitro Fumes... and a few short blips... the HIGHLIGHT was the impromptu show down between Pure Heaven and Pure Hell during, I think it was, the second year... But seeing 100 or more doesn't give me the same fuzzy feeling it did the first time. Oh sure, it's cool... and I like to see these guys one upping each other on their restorations... But... So right Sam! kinda parallels Ridler cars and top show cars.... roll outta the box,roll into the box.....
Did I tho? Look at that vid again...That guy is putting together a $100000 Donovin Hemi! Thats not nostalgia racing! Thats a $$$ spoiled guy that races a corporate car! He NEEDS to go to work for 50-60 hours a week, build his own car, with his own money, and ditch the tractor trailer that gets his car to the track...and then bitch about how shitty racing has gotten! It's because of guys like him, that things are the way they are!
I used to go to National Speedway on Long Island NY in the early 70's. It was great. Now I travel 3hrs to English Town NJ. Wife, kids, tickets, tolls,gas and food cost big$$$. It's still great. I work ot just to have a hot rod budget. Regular pay check just about covers everything else. If I hit the LOTTO can I bitch? Real men just strap on the wagon 6 days a week and pull it. It's hard to watch a guy cry while working on a engine that can pay for my 2 to go to college for 1 year. This is Thanksgiving weekend, be thank ful for what you HAVE and NOT what could be. just my .02
I give him credit for having a dream and actually DOING IT.....If he had TOO much money, I'm sure both rails would be done and running. As far as 392's vs. 417's, the iron stuff is good for cackle cars and recreations. If your going to run these cars and try to book them in 12 to 20 times a year, the 417 is the only way to go. Much more reliable and a lot easier to fix when they go boom! As far as nostalgia racing vs. nhra or bracket racing, there is plenty of room for everyone. This is why they make different flavors of ice cream, its called a choice! To me, NHRA racing lost its appeal when the BIG money came on board and the cars and teams lost their personality. Bracket racing is for the racer, not the fans, and to me, its PAINFUL to watch Super Gas and Super Comp. I agree with Tim, Nostalgia racing is the best way to go, if you want to have fun and see a show! Rocky
Paint it,Candy it, Chrome it!----Speed,Power,Beauty--------Veritas. Plain and simple. I get it. Just like Tim. I used to go to Fremont when the nostalgia drags were fun. I miss that stuff so much. Tim, you just keep that fire burning. Some of us can't wait.
I guess what I was saying really had nothing to do with the big buck guys, it had more to do with the little guy that had a way with engines and could pump out a few more mph , a couple more hp or one less second. I guess I'm lost in the 60's.
Your not the only one Doc. I don't yearn for the sixties per se. But I do yearn for simpler times as far as race cars go. I had a friend of mine that had a dragster, it had every delay box, stutter box, bell and whistle you could imagine, he couldn't cut a decent light, was always trying to get it dialed in just right. I drove it one day, I told him after a full day of trying to sort out the electronics, hey, you need to get rid of all this stuff and just drive the car! get back to being one with the car, plus you'll drop some ET when you lose all this weight. He laughed at me, then a week later I got a call. It was him. he said, were you serious about taking all the crap out of the dragster? I said, yep. In the mean time his buddies talked him out of the idea. Two weeks later he called me again. He brought the car over and I proceeded to take all the stuff out of the car. Two miles of wires, switches, boxes and doodads. We laid it out on the floor, he said my god! We took it to the track, after about 3 passes he said, Hey, I went from a .090 light to a .030 light ! I said, now go have some fun. Next step is get rid of the footbrake this is a racecar not a street car. He was a carb, gas, bracket racer, now he runs an A/F car and always says...those carb gasoline guys will never learn. Just a funny story. Lippy not that there's anything wrong with a carb and gas.
Ok, here's the fatal flaw with this tire smoking race thing. If the two cars are actually "racing", how do you judge the winner. For instance car A gets to the finish line first, but car B made more smoke and thus had less traction. Do you penalize the winner for hooking slightly better? Or, do you declare the second place car the winner because it made more smoke. I totally get the concept here...but I just can't grasp the dynamics of calling it racing. Sooo, here's how I propose everybody has their cake and eats it too. Best part is, this is something that can be done using the current cars, current tech, and can be expanded to many different classes...and it would be actual racing! What we do is divide the actual race into two races...a "burnout run, followed by an ET run. After the cars light, they roll through the water, and stop side by side. A flagman steps between the two cars, and gives them the go. They RACE to the 1/8th clocks, stop and back-up. Half of whatever round money is up for grabs goes to the winner. The cars then back-up, stage, and race for the lights in a conventional manner. Going this way would add TONS to the show that already exists, and nobody has to worry about funky technology or cultivating a separate program. The only downside to this I can see, is that it's too simple and makes too much sense.
I think that you are overworking this (maybe not). I believe the point was to race like they did before slipper clutches, computers, etc. In other words, the winner is the one who gets there first. If you smoke the tires all the way, OK, if not, so what? Thats my take on what being attempted.
The only way that can be done is if we unlearn 40plus years of knowledge. Give me a lock-up double disc and I'll be making like an ABS system on that brake handle 100 feet out. After the first race, everybody in the field will be doing the same thing.
I've been biting my tongue and now it hurts too much to keep quiet. What drew me into this whole deal as a kid was the visuals. The cars had personality plus - badass looks and wildass performance to back it up, plus snappy nicknames, drivers and crews with actual charisma (good and/or bad), etc. It was so easy to be a fan of that! There's another current thread on here, asking why drag racing seems to have changed in 1964. In my opinion, that's when entrepenuers realized they could exploit our passion to their gain. They were just taking advantage of an opportunity, like we were, so no hard feelings, but that's when it began changing for me: Funny Cars. Craftsmanship was still innovative and performance was awesome, but visually, the personalities began to fade. By the mid '70's, it was over for me. A car (any car) has to draw me in with exciting visuals before I can feel passionate about it. Static AND smoking down the line. Conder (and other people with art backgrounds) get that. If we had more of these people in racing, it'd be a different game. I myself have gone broke, more than once, in the pursuit of bringing a mechanical vision to life. Twice, it didn't even happen. But I had to try, lest that passion turn to poison inside of me. I have no regrets. I don't know Tim very well, but I think that's part of where he's coming from. I support that. Scotty
The Jalopy Journal
