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Hot Rods Tig Welding

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by krylon32, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 5,410

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    This may not be the place to ask this question but I am curious about something. I have been building custom customer 28-48 Ford Hot Rod chassis since 1982. I have developed a health problem that requires the installation of a defibrillator. I am getting mixed signals from different cardio interests as to the viability of tig welding. Do any of you have a devise or know someone with one of these devises who is still tig welding? I'd really like to talk to them. I'm down to just tacking them together with a certified welder finishing them.While I'm almost 74 I am not ready to go to pasture just yet but may be forced to do so? Any help or encouragement would be appreciated. Thanks. Gary at Cornhusker Rod And Custom
     
  2. Gary, I've wondered about that for sometime. If you use a dc machine without the high freq, I wouldn't think the exposure would be a problem. But, I have friends that have defibs. They have all told me that once it goes off, you'll do whatever it takes to make sure that never happens again. I'm sorry I'm really not much help. Best wishes!
     
  3. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 410

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    You could go with O/A welding. No electricity guaranteed.
     
    flatford39 likes this.
  4. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 210

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    I wish that I had a definitive answer as well. As a really recent implant guy, I have been trying to find real answers, there are lots of “I know a guy....” kind of answers out there, but nothing that I would bet my life on. For my particular device, the following safety precautions are listed on their website. Current below 160 A is ok, but really no information as to the effect of TIG Hi Frequency or the like. In any case, I will be (traditionally!) welding trim holes with Oxy Acetylene in about 2 weeks.

    Good Luck, Gary, and figure out a way to keep going!

    Welding Safety Precautions

    • Limit welding to currents less than 160 amps
    • Work in a dry area with dry gloves and shoes
    • Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device
    • Keep the welding cables close together and as far away as possible from your heart device. Place the welding unit approximately 5 feet from the work area.
    • Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible. Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.
    • Wait several seconds between attempts when having difficulty starting a weld
    • Work in an area that offers firm footing and plenty of room for movement
    • Work with an informed person who understands these suggestions
    • Immediately stop welding and step away from the area if you start feeling lightheaded, dizzy, or you believe your implantable defibrillator has delivered a shock
     
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  5. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,698

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Sorry to hear that Gary. I have two friends who have had them installed and were told by their doctors not to TIG weld...PERIOD. I would check with your doctor to be sure of ending your welding career.
     
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  6. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,609

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just bought a new TIG and have been experiencing tripping GFCI's on various circuits in the garage. Some over 20 feet away. But not the circuit the welder is on. If the high freq can trip unrelated circuits I'd think it wouldn't be good for your internal shocker just a couple feet from the welder.
     
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  7. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 5,410

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    Razoo: What you published is exactly what the sales rep for the devise sent me. I'm thinking I get a good enough fit on my chassis components to do my tacking with gas? It will take practice but I bet I can master it. Another thing to consider is if the devise goes off it's apparently a law here in Nebraska that your grounded from driving for 6 months! Something else I get mixed reports about power tools especially battery powered tools and even some power cord tools such as grinders and drills? Gives you something to think about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
    flatford39 likes this.
  8. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 1,143

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    I answered your question on another site but the answer is NO, do not TIG weld with a defibrillator. There isn't a cardiologist that would OK it. I fried my hearing aids TIG welding aluminum. Hearing Aids I can live without and get new ones. Heart issue, you can not. One thing I didn't mention on the other site is, that if you do see a doctor, don't sugar coat it. Be upfront with the type of machinery you are using and your concerns. Most doctors don't know a screwdriver from a wrench. A high frequency TIG welder is a whole different animal that doctors don't have a clue about.
     
  9. I learned myself real fast to make sure the ground was connected before stepping on the pedal.
    Sent amps across my chest twice.
    Had a heart attack in 2013, I since decided to sell the TIG, I don't think i'd survive a third time.
    I know your concern is different, but for me, giving up TIG welding was something
    I was willing to do to help my heart keep beating.
     
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  10. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,579

    117harv
    Member

    The Tig makes my shop radio shut off on a regular basis, and it's 15 feet away. No on using the Tig, we have lost too many rodders already.
     
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  11. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,002

    flatford39
    Member

    I had know idea and I bet a bunch of other people didn't either. This thread may have saved someones life. Thanks for posting it.
     
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  12. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 327

    lumpy 63
    Member

    I work in a fab shop for a large facility , we have several different shops, carpentry , plumbing etc..About a year ago they made us switch from paper work orders to tablets. Quess what? ours is the only shop where the tablets constantly screw up...The tech guy is blaming it on high frequency.
     
  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 1,863

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not sure if a defibulator is the same thing as a pacemaker, but when my pop's had his put in, they gave him this little device that would light up if he was too close to (I think) EMF. He quit welding, plasma cutting, etc...
     
  14. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,076

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    You don't need HF to TIG weld, just use a scratch start machine and only weld mild and SS steel.
     
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  15. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 99

    TrailerTrashToo
    Member

    I have a defibrillator (a.k.a Jump start box) - It is more that the high frequency of a TIG that effects pacemakers and defibrillators. The electromagnetic field radiated from any form of electric arc can interfere and/or burn out the unit. More dangerous than getting a "Jump start" is having the box burn out.

    NOTE
    : I said radiated - those wires going from the box to your heart are antennas - If you get too close to someone welding, the box can be destroyed without touching anything on the welding table.

    The intensity of the radiated energy increases with the amperage of the weld. The intensity of the radiated energy decreases as the square of the distance from the weld. I step back a few feet from anyone welding. I also avoid monster magnets and high power radio transmitters.

    Also, I am not supposed to work on live ignition systems, ie hang over a running motor, etc. Gotta admit to cheating on this one - I have not taken a direct hit from a spark plug wire since I got my first jump start box. I hook up the timing light before starting the engine, and hold the timing light at full arms length (ie, away from the heart).
     
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  16. papajohn
    Joined: Nov 2, 2006
    Posts: 733

    papajohn
    Member

    Two years ago I was in congestive heart failure and a-fib.i will be in a-fib the rest of my life. The local Dr wanted to shut me down and put in a pacemaker/defibrillator. This seemed extreme at age 48. So I went to Cleveland Clinic ( a 3 hr drive for me) and they agreed with me! They put me on a newer drug, Entresto, and I'm doing great.
    Just food for thought, don't be afraid to get a second opinion.
     
  17. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,222

    OLDSMAN
    Member

    A bunch of us were talking at breakfast today about your medical problems and every one that has either a defibrillator or pacemaker installed doesn't use any type of an electric welder. They have been told by their Doctors to avoid them totally.
     
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  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,848

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would talk to Miller, I'll bet they have machines that will work for you. They weld space stations together with extremely sensitive electronics, they'll have something for you.
     
  19. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,922

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Modern inverter welding machines have less high frequency leakage than the older machines.

    We have all of the newest Miller equipment at the school and we can still demonstrate high frequency current leakage to the students.

    We wrap the Tig welding torch lead around a fluorescent light tube and then start welding.

    With the modern inverters the tube still lights up from the high frequency leakage but not as brightly as it did with the older square wave or synchrowave machines.

    Miller doesn’t make anything any better nor does any welding equipment manufacturer.

    We had a guy who worked in our materials prep shop next to the Tig welding shop.

    Once he had his heart device installed he could no longer work in our building.

    They moved him to another shop with no welding equipment and he worked in the tool crib till he retired.

    Personally I think your welding time is over.
     
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  20. Weedburner 40
    Joined: Jan 26, 2006
    Posts: 538

    Weedburner 40
    Member
    from California

    Damn Gary. That's not good. If the welder doesn't get you, the boredom will. I'm sure you can figure out a way around this. I also think a second opinion is a good idea. Good luck.
     
  21. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,922

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    If there was a way you could wear a faraday cage then you’d probably be okay however I don’t think there’s anything available that would give you that level of protection.

    Like I said I think it’s time to hang up the torch.:(
     
  22. We used to light tubes outside near overhead wires. Walk outside holding it and you had a 8' glow stick, and if it was raining it would light up. Not a welding machine anywhere.
     
  23. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 829

    Rex_A_Lott
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would second the suggestion to learn to gas weld properly. It can be done, its just not popular because its not easy and its slow. The heat affected zone is typically a lot bigger,also. When I was in vocational school our instructor made us all gas weld 2" schedule 40 pipe in all positions, and we cut straps out of them and bent them to prove their integrity just like we did for pipe that was stick welded. Only the better students ever even got to try TIG welding.
    Many old hot rods were built using gas welding, even some aircraft were built with that method.
    Google "tin man tech" and try to get Kent White on the phone, he will help you out.
    Good luck in your efforts.!
     
  24. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 5,410

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    I would only be tacking the chassis together with the gas welder, we would still finish weld the chassis with a tig while I'm out of the building.
     
    Flowmeister likes this.
  25. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 99

    TrailerTrashToo
    Member

    You do not have to leave the building. A few feet (say 10 foot for a margin of safety) works well. Last year, I took gas welding at the community college, I just stayed at least 6 foot away from the guys welding thick plate. There were no recorded incidents on my jump-start-box (it gets it's memory read every 3 months).
     
  26. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 210

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    I disagree with Blue One telling you that a Faraday Cage would “probably be ok”. It would not, according to the manufacturers of the device. (and with all due respect, I would not rely on “cardiac advice” from a welding instructor.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  27. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,158

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    I have AFIB. I can tell the second I enter AFIB and the only way they have successfully converted me is a cardiovert. During an update class for my staff one year, the welding instructor advised I NOT take up TIG welding. His explaination was that holding the rod in one hand and the gun in the other left your body as the perfect conduit. He also mentioned pacemakers being messed up by TIG more than other types of welding. That was seconded by my cardiologist who happened to also know how to weld and could TIG weld (high school/college job). Because of those 2 people, I never took up TIG welding.
    SPark
     
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  28. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,922

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    :p I wasn’t giving cardiac advice. Just speculating and never said it would work.

    It’s not worth risking a life over it.

    So much for trying to be helpful.

    If your reading comprehension was better you’d realize that I said that his welding days were probably over twice.

    That’s why I seldom post anything on welding related stuff anymore, there’s always someone who wants to twist around whatever you say.
     
  29. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 210

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    Thank you. Always nice to have one of your cheerful posts to brighten my day.
    Your post said that a Faraday cage would probably be ok, I disagreed. I feel that I comprehended it fairly well. Sorry that you did not, but have a good weekend.
     
  30. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,922

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    :rolleyes: :p :D
     

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