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Tig welding advice on sheetmetal (Model A)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 1930ModelA, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. 1930ModelA
    Joined: Sep 4, 2008
    Posts: 108

    1930ModelA
    Member

    I am doing some sheetmetal work on my model a (chopping top, filling gas tank on cowl, etc).

    My question is what is the best size tungsten and filler to use? I am tacking and jumping around to avoid excessive warping.

    Using 2% thoriated. I have 1/16" and .040 tungsten. and all sizes of filler .020, .040, 1/16. What is the best combination? I have amps set at 50-60 range.

    Thank you for the help in advance.
     
  2. toreadorxlt
    Joined: Feb 27, 2008
    Posts: 734

    toreadorxlt
    Member
    from Nashua, NH

    I use 2% 3/32 tung, and 1/16" filler at 40-45amps. thats just me though. you'll get a million answers
     
  3. 1930ModelA
    Joined: Sep 4, 2008
    Posts: 108

    1930ModelA
    Member

    Thanks for the reply, I have been mainly using 1/16" tungsten and .040 filler
     
  4. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,276

    metalman
    Member

    I use 1/16 tungsten and .035 er70 mig wire as filler on just about any sheetmetal.
     
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  5. 1930ModelA
    Joined: Sep 4, 2008
    Posts: 108

    1930ModelA
    Member

    metalman thanks for the reply. I am on the right track, sometimes you just want to double check yourself. Getting ready to give my model a a haircut next week.
     
  6. 5Wcoupe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 306

    5Wcoupe
    Member
    from L.A., Ca.

    What you're using sounds right to me.
    You might want to try lanthinated tungsten. I think it works as well if not better and you won't have to worry about health hazard when you grind it.
     
  7. mohead1
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 557

    mohead1
    Member

    +1 one the 1/16 with small torch....and i use the mig wire occasionally too, depending on the thickness, could be 022 or 035
     
  8. St. Louis Cummins
    Joined: Nov 29, 2012
    Posts: 124

    St. Louis Cummins
    Member

    A water cup under the grinder wheel is supposed to catch the radioactive material during grinding process. Rendering it "safe". However, radiation is everywhere. Just depends on time exposed.[/B]
     
  9. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    If you do the mig wire thing find a tig 'pencil' to hold it in. Last thing you want to have happen when using mig wire in your fingers is it to ground on the other end it'll become a redhot heating element in a millisecond.
     
  10. St. Louis Cummins
    Joined: Nov 29, 2012
    Posts: 124

    St. Louis Cummins
    Member

    This does suck. [/B]
     
  11. 1/16 tig rod wire looks and acts like a telephone pole going into the 19 -16 ga weld puddle to me.

    I use 3/32 tungsten and 0.035 mig wire.
     
  12. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    For conversation sake, i use the 16th rod to help control the heat more than a filler. I'll grab a bit of it for the puddle and then set it to the thin/old side of the metal to add some mass and absorb heat. I just don't much care for the brittleness of the mig wire.
    I am going to try some silicon bronze rod soon, see how that works - any of you guys tried it on body panels?
     
  13. You are going to love the silicone bronze rod !!!

    Conversations :
    For back up I have some really powerful magnets that I use.
    From the back side ill place a piece of copper flashing over the joint and hold it there with with the magnet. It helps just enough for those sketchy areas.

    Harvested them from an old micro wave.
    So strong the brooms rider got her finger pinched between the magnet and the fridge.
    They will wiggle a fork on the kitchen table if you hold the magnet under the table. Great for impressing little ones lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  14. jonathan
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 390

    jonathan
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    How, why, where do you experience this? I've never had a problem TIG welding using MIG wire.

    And I'll add that I use 3/32 tungsten (only because I received 3 packs of it when I purchased my welder) and around .035 MIG wire. It all depends on the panel thickness and gap size though. Keep them tight! The smaller the wire, the less material to planish and grind.
     
  15. toreadorxlt
    Joined: Feb 27, 2008
    Posts: 734

    toreadorxlt
    Member
    from Nashua, NH

    this is inspiring me to try .040 wire and smaller tungsten. I only use 3/32 because I weld between 3/16" and 1/8" quite a bit
     
  16. cayager
    Joined: Feb 10, 2012
    Posts: 293

    cayager
    Member

    .040 tungsten makes a big difference on thin.sheet metal i used 3/32 for years but have alot more control with the smaller tungsten at lower amps.
     
  17. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    I can't say i've had a 'problem' it just feels harder, if i have a 'pride' then it dresses harder and i don't care for that. I'd like my filler be close in composition to the base metal.
     
  18. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    I use 1mm thoraited tungsten and 1mm rods.
     
  19. jonathan
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 390

    jonathan
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    I can understand that. So what filler do you use?
     
  20. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma


    I use the easy grind mig wire in mine...

    not that I know anything. still learning here.

    one tip I got for using the mig wire is to cut off a 18" length clamp one end in the vice and chuck the other end in a drill. pull lightly and spin the drill. it takes the curve out of the mig wire and makes it much easier to handle.


    anyone else using gold/lanthanated tungsten?? I started using it because I can use one kind of tungsten for all of my welding.
     
  21. mink
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,302

    mink
    Member
    from CT

    Is there a special sequence of tacking a panel, thats to spot weld using a Tig welder. I just got finished replacing a fender wall on my model T and It came out nice expect for some oil can effect in a 4 inch diameter spanning a section across the joint. It almost like the gap became an interference fit. before welding I trimmed the panels so that there was no gap. I believe I was at 60amps. I was only using one vice grip, maybe thats the issue.
     
  22. Every tack shrinks as it cools.
    As is shrinks it will pull most from the path of least resistance ie the gap.
    Once the gap is closed, then it pulls on surrounding materials.

    Essentially we created the metallurgical equivalent of 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb sack. Not by over stuffing the sack but by shrinking the sack around the crap.
    The weld and immediate area around it need to un-shrunk.
    Some guys may called it "stretched" but to keep it clear in my head and for explanations it is reversing the force applied to the steel - to correct this it needs to be un-shrunk.

    You can do this as you go - 1 tack and reverse the shrink for several hundred tacks. Then short welds - 1 weld then reverse the shrink x several hundred
    Or you can just weld from one end to the other and then reverse the shrink .

    The sure fire way to control it is 1 at a time.
     
  23. 31-5window
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 226

    31-5window
    Member
    from Michigan

    when you say un-shrunk how do you that? hammer dolly? what do you do when you can't get a dolly behind it. you a tack then hammer it or tack piece in then hammer it?
     
  24. Hammer on dolly yes.
    You need to plan your work cuts and patches so that you can get a dolly behind the weld.

    You can do
    tack hammer tack hammer repeat ...

    Tack tack tack till done then hammer each one till done. But some tacks may need more smacks than others. Repeat same for welds

    Tack it up - weld it up and then work it with a hammer

    The first method gives the best control because its very minute movements either direction. Things really never get too out of wack.

    Try some scrap pieces with each method and see what happens and how it happens and if you can get a flat piece of metal again. If you can get it un shrunk with out any un needed or misplaced stretches it will be pretty flat
     
  25. toreadorxlt
    Joined: Feb 27, 2008
    Posts: 734

    toreadorxlt
    Member
    from Nashua, NH

    I normally tack every inch or two then fill between the seams. after making a 1-2" run I get after stretching the heat affected zone with a hammer on dolly action while its still hot.

    Then I go in and grind the proud of the weld down with a cut off wheel and work the rest with roloc discs. planish, file, repeat. It's time consuming.

    In the end I feel like I do more hammer work than welding, so I don't worry about welding distortion as much as I used to. Maybe im doing something wrong, but it works for me.
     
  26. mink
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,302

    mink
    Member
    from CT

  27. 5Wcoupe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 306

    5Wcoupe
    Member
    from L.A., Ca.

    anyone else using gold/lanthanated tungsten?? I started using it because I can use one kind of tungsten for all of my welding.[/QUOTE]

    I learned to tig with 2% thoriated and I was reluctant to switch but I tried Lanthanated and have never looked back. If anything, I like it better.
     
  28. Best description I've ever heard! Thanks 31! Good info.
     
  29. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    I learned to tig with 2% thoriated and I was reluctant to switch but I tried Lanthanated and have never looked back. If anything, I like it better.[/QUOTE]


    our welder here at work swears by it. But, he welds some pretty exotic stuff like inconel, titanium, stainless as well as aluminum and steel. His setup has a gas lense running 2-3 times the gas through it that a standard cup uses. I couldn't even afford the gas he goes through nevermind everything else!
     

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