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Think Im going to be sick. brand new flathead siezed.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lowsquire, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    from Austin, TX

    Thanks Dick.

    Bearings were old stock, marked .010

    Crank was turned 10 thou under,mains and rods.

    bearings were assembled in block and Crankshaft clearances checked and documented by a reputable engine building shop before assembly.I left the decision on whether they were usable up to them..they thought they were fine, and the clearances were spot on.

    Nothing but metallic looking oil in the sump.

    The crank has some discolouring, but no scoring as such.

    the Bore damage has me at a loss. I agree bearing material is too soft to do it, but what else? rings disintegrating?

    again, all conjecture until i rip it down.
  2. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145


    Sounds like you coughed up a ring...and it depends on how far the scoring goes up the cylinder wall and how deep it is...sometimes a quick hone and a new set of custom fit/filed rings will reseal it up well enough to keep your compression numbers within spec with the other of luck man...
  3. That sucks...sorry to hear.

    Was the rotating assembly balanced? I've seen one where material was taken too close to the wrist pin area on the piston when balanced and the piston failed causing the engine to seize. I guess if it were a mild fail of the piston it could score the cylinder.

  4. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,177


    man, I'm getting deja vu'.

    When mine did that it was an egg shaped tunnel.

    Mate I really am feeling your pain.
  5. xix32
    Joined: Jun 12, 2008
    Posts: 513


    very sorry to read about your engine.
    i have recently been putting one together myself. and have leared how the oil has to feed around the cam bearings before it gets to the crank bearings. ( page 37, frank oddo's book - ford flathead v8 builders handbook)
    i was just about to post that to you, when i see r.pope from canada already has. at this point that would be my suspicion.
    you have a beautiful car, good luck to you, i feel your pain, it hurts.
  6. Sorry to see the carnage amigo, I know how you feel but just try and focus on nutting it out and get her on the road for summer.....

    Was gonna ring you today man but got sidetracked with family stuff.

    Ill drop in Monday AM to have a look if thats OK.

    Seems where theres smoke there's fire, your machinist/eng builder was nothing but a PITA to deal with, if I was a betting man, id say they put your mill together in a hurry so that they could get you off their backs. I hope not for their sake. Do they know what has gone down....?

    FWIW, there are too many self appointed gurus down here parading themselves as quality machinists I'm afraid. Evey one I've dealt with has been a total dick and conduct themselves as though YOU the customer need THEM, instead of the other way around.

    Chat soon.

  7. I would bet dollars to donuts that there was crap in the oil gallery...or SOMEwhere in the oiling system, and I'll bet it was after the pump...
  8. the SCROUNGER
    Joined: Nov 17, 2005
    Posts: 489

    from USA

    a rod bearing will lock it up as easily as a main bearing
  9. the SCROUNGER
    Joined: Nov 17, 2005
    Posts: 489

    from USA

    I've seen many a new engine lost like that, from machining/assembly grit being in the oil galleys. The worst thing you can do is get a motor back from the shop, just wash the outside, blow water in the various holes, then dry/assemble it.

    every single oil galley hole must be scrubbed clean with long motor bristle brushes, then every hole checked with a light, they should shine clean.

    another warning sign- if there's an oil galley plug left in during hot tank/rebuild, that galley will have grit in it, that will destroy the bearings and lock up the motor in short order

    ask me how I know, lost a 455 Pontiac twice that way, trusting a local machine shop that it was clean in the galleys- it wasn't- from then on, we remove ALL the oil galley plugs, scrub every galley to death with brushes, use a pressure washer to blow them out, then compressed air, then peer inside with a drop light from end to end, and keep cleaning it until it SHINES in there. We spend as much time or more cleaning the block, crank. rods, pistons, cam, other parts, as assembling it.

    the key to a successful engine rebuild, is cleanliness. If the parts are not machined right, you need a new machinist. But once you find a good one, the real ownis is on the assembler to get everything clean.

    broken rings in a new motor, means either there was a ridge that wasn't cut at top, and the rings hit it and broke, or there wasn't enough ring end gap, and when it warmed up the ring contacted itself at the gap area, pressed against itself in the groove, and had nowhere to expand, and broke

    or the wrong rings were put in the engine, or the piston/bore clearance was too tight, or an egg shaped crank wiped the bearings, or a piece of grit or metal found it's way into the oil pump and locked it up

    can be a multitude of things, but usually it's common dirt/debris that does it
  10. buckeye_01
    Joined: Jun 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,441


    I was thinking that same thing. I had something similar happen on my stocker motor that I built years ago. Of course that was a Mopar.

    Best of luck to you man. I know what you are going through.
  11. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,347


    Ouch. That sucks.

    Please keep the thread updated as you sort things out.

    And keep reminding yourself.. "This is a HOBBY.... I do it for the ENJOYMENT"

  12. dkiser72
    Joined: Sep 25, 2009
    Posts: 40

    from ny

    could the starter be locked up with the flywheel? had that happen and no way the motor will turn by hand ...just thought i'd throw that in there
  13. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,436

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

  14. unkledaddy
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 2,865


    Looks like moly-paste. Moly-paste on bearings can obstruct oil flow.

    Nice looking ride......sorry for the temporary setback.
  15. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,544

    from colorado

    Yes. Yes. Yes. Also, if an oil passageway gets plugged 'tanking' it will simetimes bake the slug in the passage. Air pressure can be used to verify a passage is clear, but won't unplug it. When any restriction is indicated, mechanical method must be used to clear it. I don't know that's what happened in this case, but that's a very likely explaination. It's very unlikely that assembly lube will cause such a restriction. That's also why it's important to look for HIGH oil pressure on initial startup, an indication of restricted oil passage/s.
  16. Sorry man, looks like no oil at all. Like eveyone has said before take a little time and come back later. You may find that it can be fixed without too much trouble, sometime gouges in cylinders don't look so bad after a hone has gone over them.
  17. Idlzruf
    Joined: Oct 24, 2009
    Posts: 93


    Dam sorry to hear about the outcome was hoping it was something minor. Step back for a few and relax abit.Its not goin anywhere.
  18. Ron In the SHOP
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 53

    Ron In the SHOP
    from california

    lots of these older engines have little bits of quap that break loose inside the galleys..
    as said, the only positive mannor to know for certain is to use a strong lite and LOOK...
    we use a special small light that is on a coathangar wire sized probe....

    I once took over an engine oiling problem that was failed to be corrected after being washed and rebuilt two times by someone else.

    I found that
    there was casting flash and drilling flash ./ burrs that were never thouroughly removed / washed out....

    everyone was pointing fingers at each other...

    it ruined a lot of parts...!!!!

  19. MN Falcon
    Joined: May 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    MN Falcon

    As said that sucks. I hope things get worked out.

    Correct me if I am wrong, if #1 main isn't getting oil, then #1 and #5 rods are not either since they are fed from the main through the crank? If the rods aren't getting oil then they are not spraying the cylinder walls? If I am correct it would mean that all of your damage might be consistent with the main not getting oil.
  20. greaser
    Joined: Apr 30, 2006
    Posts: 859


    Lowsquire, very nice looking hot rod ya got there!
    I'm with the others...this sucks for you big time, but I know if you built that sweet machine that I see is your original post, this setback will only be a temporary one, and you WILL figure it out.
    Good luck to you, I hope your reversed direction is short time.
  21. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    from Austin, TX

    Thanks yet again, yeh it points to crap in the oiling system, but the problem is there is now bearing debris right through the whole hard to work out where it first started, and I was really thorough with cleaning out all passages on this thing, shone a torch through every one i could see thru (which suprisingly is nearly all of em) No sludge traps on these cranks, and all passages were spotless.

    the frustrating thing is I really dont think I made any mistakes, and it STILL fucked up.

    Any how, to take my mind off it, as my 3" chopped windscreen turned up yesterday, I decided to chop the posts to suit, and mount it. its Nickel plated, like the rest of the brightwork.A lovely piece made by a Local rodder. these photos make me happy, and also sad as I would be taking it for its first ever drive today if I didnt have to blow it apart. :(



  22. captain scarlet
    Joined: Jun 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,416

    captain scarlet
    from Detroit

    Sweet looking car. Sorry to hear/read about the problems. You won't remember them though when you are blasting down the road with the wind in you face :D
  23. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 47

    from Illinois

    What a beautiful car. I like the previous poster's comment on a temporary setback. Every project is full of them and nothing is more frustrating than not being able to figure out where you went wrong. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
  24. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    from Wa.St.

    This isn't gonna help a bit but do you know how many guys wish they were in your shoes? Good luck, you just paid your dues...............
  25. Bosco1956
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 545

    from Jokelahoma

    Sorry for your bad luck. But that is one great looking 32 WOW
  26. colorado kid
    Joined: Sep 23, 2009
    Posts: 45

    colorado kid
    from Colorado

  27. Could you find a decent running stocker to throw in while you figure yours out just to enjoy the car (a very sharp car!). Anyone got a loaner flathead for you down there?
  28. same happend to my fresh rebuilt mopar 8ltr V10... i said words i won't repeat in civilised company.
  29. Chuck R
    Joined: Dec 23, 2001
    Posts: 1,347

    Chuck R

    wow, outstanding hot rod. Sorry for your delay but you will be heading down the road in no time.
  30. 333 Half Evil
    Joined: Oct 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,440

    333 Half Evil


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