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Technical Things to try an avoid on a rod build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by dana barlow, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:09 am from a 8 year
    older posting

    Hope this can be enjoyed as help,you can read an learn or not,there is always a few that take info wrong vs those that can use ideas to help an learn things
    .
    I had to do a little hunting,as this hole posting was about 8 years old an the old hotrod site it was on failed an is gone now,but I wrote it.. I had saved most of it,so I could try to fix spelling this old topic from the old site;
    Things to avoid on a build;

    These things I'm listing cuz if you know why the're not a good idea,you may also see them as misstakes and not so good looking or cool ether,save some probs as well as your $$$.;

    I like a lot of rods that have some of these screw ups on them,but they can be fixed,I just hate seeing guys in pain too. NO rules here but just good brains from doing this a very long time..
    Talking only rods to drive on the street here,not racecars or show only rods.;

    Don't do's;
    NO brakes on the front wheels,NO tires on the front with only ribs=don't hold for crap,just good for dirt racing,NO tires that are round tread made for MC=don't hold for crap=no contact to steer rod or stop it with,dose work on MC but that has lot less lbs. and leans too. Small steering wheels under 13in. are for crap to drive with,not much control when you need it,redesign so you can fit one that is bigger,every 1/2 in. extra counts. Over chopped top may look cool to you,but drives poorly, your cramped up and also can't see safely ,after you drove one like that=you'll think over chopped is a damn cartoon and not really cool. No bomber seats,very few can be made so they can be road/sate in for more then ten miles at a time=put real seats in/they look way better after your butt tells ya how bomber seats are{they work in a race car for a short run,but that's the only place. Yes there are a few with so much padding done,they feel OK,but at that point you should of used a real seat anyway.
    . No open floor boards,crap hits ya in the face and eyes plus makes riding pretty bad over all in a fairly short time,really unsafe cuz anything from hot motor too water and other not good at all stuff will and dose end up on you. NO headers that blast EX on to your car body,yes it gets hot and yes the paint goes to hell,but you will end up getting burned as well ,plus an added note the big black crap on the side of your rod looks like a sign saying your less then smart about your build.
    NO gas tanks and fuel lines inside the drivers compartmint,this seems I would not even need to put this down,but hay I see it now alot,build a compartmint around it with design idea being gas dose not get on you from gas line coming apart in any way or tank some how leaking ect.
    No ragged unpainted metal,take the time to make stuff look like it was done by somebody that had repect for what they did,cuz you or some one will get cut from ragged parts,they only look like crap anyway. Rust is rust becuz its rotting away not becuz its cool in any form,FIX it,patina is also rot.
    If this note saves anyone from planning wrong in the begining,I didn't wast my time writing it.
    It's good if you add idea to aviod also.
    That list is by no means complete,add what you like. I'm giving the why not to do's,not just I don't like the look it gives a rod=a peeve? .
    My son as we worked on his T-bucket,refused my asking to make his passnger side door to open,it's his rod,so its his way.
    Yes, I do think working doors is a big plus,maybe more so for the woman,yet you can always just say your gay[hay that's a joke],takes a lot of work to get doors to open and close and really shows you did not take the E Z way out.,yet many roadsters are jump over the side,most t-bucket body's are made that way. But if you ever add a folding soft top you will be so pissed-off the doors don't work,as you try to get out or in with the top up..Plus as you get older you'll love a working door. Jumping over may seem good tell it also mess up the place you doing it all the time.

    One of the biggist probs with doing some stuff that I already listed,is that you'll fine later after driving it, was not so good to do, but end up trying to live with it, most will never say they did a screw up cuz of hardheadidiss, partly cuz now it would be real hard to fix it after ,it's much better for them to tell me I'm nuts,and every thing they did is great,but they sell the rod! "Though some of me being nuts is also fact"

    I think I could make a big list of peeve's like anyone can,but that's a "I just don't like the looks of things deal",maybe interesting to do though just to see how many of us all think the same on?
    Key to a good build,making car comfortable to drive is too under rated,many rods just get sold over an over cuz there not very drivible,but unknowing guys buy them and soon fine out they hate it, and every now and then someone actully takes the time to try and fix it right,or the rod just is not driven and rots some were.,a shame cuz a lot of wast happens in the name of cool looks,that really were not so cool, if its to messed up to be driven a lot.

    Ride hight can be fairly EZ to fix vs other stuff can be a super PITA after the rod is built. {scrub line,if ya never herd of it,look it up}
    Gen.rule for lowist on ride hight would be on a short rod [around 110in. wheel base] about 3in. in center of car and that is pushing it[some speedpumps are that size+],a longer wheel base needs 4in. or more depening on how long,more langth needs more room under center. Bags cover up poor planning fairly well and you even get to park your rod so it looks like it's stuck in the mud.LOL or your wheels were stolden off the car.
    I do like adding a skidplate to bottom of oilpan,1/8in. steel plate will save a hole from happening most of the time.

    Rear rad /rad in trunk;
    Poor cooling air flow no matter how good your scoops are,under car scoops pick up more crap then a streetswepper,rad size has to be too big for it to cool,hoses and lines are running too near cockpit and get all kind of airpockets in them=not good cooling there ether,high risk of leaks,all comes down to rads should be up front on big high HP motors,rear can work on small little motors but still has high risk of big prob. For a drag race only car I've seen it work,but dangerist. Baha racers do it with rear motor cars and super giant rads/some times two of them,but mounted high up that way to try and keep rock and crap out,not a good look there but it's racing.
    I know I sometimes give out unwanted advise,but really trying to just pass on things I found as I was stacking up my 70years+ so far of building hotrods.

    __________________Fix your Ackerman if it's wrong!;
    Tierod out front of axle can be a prob ,but dosen't have to be [you can bend or replace arm on the spindels],when turning spindel around backword that have built on arms like Ford,stock arms behind axle are designed for good steering behind axle with engineering called Ackerman,this makes the out side tire turn less then the inside tire. The good part of that is that front tires work together to help turn the car in a corner.
    But if you use the spindels backword with stock arms ,tierod out front,your front tires do not work together,now the out side tire is trying to turn a sharper couner then the inside tires is going for,this makes for super poor steering in wet , drit or panic braking in a turn=this when you would feel it the most,but your front tires are in some what of a skid in any turn with backword Ackerman,you just don't feel it on dry good road,tell it's too late and your frontend dose not steer when you need it the most and can be a crash wating to happen!
    Drawing to the left of post is wrong backword Ackerman and not good,Drawing to right shows how spindel arms line up with a engineering line from center of your rear end up though the kingpin on out to tierod outer ball joint=make front tire again work for each other vs aginst eack other in a turn. ****
    You don't need to be super exact with that engineering line but close is good,even strait out beats backword*.
    Funny things about ever talking about ackerman on hotrod site,is some rodders will call it BS cuz they been driving like forever with it wrong and had no probs,= fact is they been lucky as hell, and cuz you can not feel it being wrong driving in a striat line,they think it must be OK=wrong,it's not that they are lieing,they just don't know any better and so far got away with out a crash. It is not Trationel to be stupid,so fix it. Not fixing it is the same thing as driving around a corner with about 1/2 of only one tire steering the car.
    [ ] < the drawing have been added at very BTM of post.




    If you have not done flaring ever before;some advise;
    Now days it is so EZ to just make a list of size/langth of lines and just buy them at or close to size/langth. Fairly EZ to put a bend or two, or even a loop to get line a bit shorter,it will cost less than getting a good Flare tool [cheep flare tool is a wast of time and lines] plus all the parts to make them. They are really well double flared at both ends [it will take many trys to get even close to as well done.,get them just a little long if they don't have your langth listed[order if needed its wroth the few days. Now I know some love to fine out how to do it your self and thats good too,just not on your very first rod's safety.
    Tips about do it your self flaring;;
    Line cut offs need to be cleaned up very very smooth* and strait including inside tube at cut off. Take paint off,tool don't grab paint as good as metal. Look at your flare very carefully to see if there is any cracks in the flare at all,if so it's junk [some time you just get some crappy tubing that it's welded seam sucks and cracks ever time you try,=get other tube is best. Always lube/grease were your flaring but not the clamp that holds the tube as your doing it.
    *Why nicely smooth the tubing cut,well if it is ruff it is much more likely it well split as you try to flare it,every scratch in metal is a place for a crack to start from, far EZer then on a smooth part and that goes for any part too=and you thought I just like shiny cuz of the looks only!!!

    I was working along today on making my new battery cables and ground strap*. I remembered I had not noted about them on this thread;
    I know it's all nice and neat to make bat cables as short as you can cuz it looks clean,but don't do them so short that they will not reach the right + or - battery post if you ever have to put in a battery with the post revrist. on down the road.cuz the same type bat ya got just an't around and that little extra few in. of cable gets you home OK.

    __________________NEW type thin TIRES and big tall RIMS;
    I'd like too say a few words about the new design fanzy big tall rims and rubber band thin type tires they use now on some rods and customs.
    Beside looking wrong for older cars,they are very very wrong engineering wise,the old cars suspension engineering designs were done knowing how much flex was in the old tires that came with the car, and how that made the tire tread act on the road for control,also that same tire flex was part of the ride [spring] of the car as well.
    If you think they look good think again! Here is what the wrong design of those new ones do to your old car; The ride becomes ruffer then ever,the control is now very bad in rain or cornering or in sand or stones=why? now that you have that fanzy new tire that is so thin with no flex=it will not hold the road as the suspension design moves for a flexible type tire,but with the new type with no flex actully picks up part of the new tire off the road in a turn,by the way that same action makes new fancy tire ware out on its edges fast.
    =If you see these things on a rod with there big like,some 21in. + rims and rubber band type tires,now you can LOL at lest in your head,knowing they cost a hell of a lot of $$$$$ to look poorly engineered and work wrong! In most cases telling the guy dosen't work,after all they cost him a ton of $$$$ so they got to be good,often he will tell you how much better it rides and steers,but that is total bull shit to cover his misstake or he really dosen't know any better at all.
    As you can tell I did try to help a few guys,very few can stand to get smarter. This notes may help some one before they blow $$$$ on wrong rim/tire.


    __________Big old headlights are not old school !
    Now we see a lot of rods with big old headlights on them,plus in many cases mounted very low were they can't work much,that's actully not something I ever saw in the late 50's or early 60's. Frankly that would of been looked at as fugly at the time becuz they worked poorly for seeing and were big that was though of as not fast looking.
    Small = more streamlined and there for looked faster. To take you back to the time,you should know that 7in. sealbeams were the new thing and worked very well vs a bulb in a reflxder type light=about 1/2 the light to see with. So just like adding a V8,we added good lights that really worked and mounted them about at or around the top of front tires,not below them.
    Big old lights mounted low are the trend now,but look wrong to those that know better,beside not working for crap.

    __________________When buying parts,beside thinking about all the stuff already listed. You can save your self headakes, $ an time;;
    It's always good to try and get big things as complete as ya can to strat with;
    Stuff like the rear end your going to use should all ready have all it's brakes on it when ya pick it=cost way more then ya think to go fine them parts later. Same goes for motor,try to find one with a tranny already on it. Or even front axle assemblely=with brakes if ya can.
    ____________There more parts to this old stuff,but I'll start with this,if liked,I'll try reterving some more. Always room for others helpfull ideas too.
    Last edited by Dana Barlow on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
    post.
    Dana Barlow,
    AKA "The Bat"out of hell.
    Not done tell it's shiny

    Added missing drawings for ackerman at BTM,sorry they got lost from older
     

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  2. okie dokie
     
    chop job likes this.
  3. That there is a lot of typing.
    I agree with 3 of the points.
     
    LOU WELLS and 1927graham like this.
  4. I like Palm trees.
     
    Kume, LOU WELLS and Boryca like this.

  5. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Unless I missed it, there was one missing.
    Avoid running out of money.
     
  6. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Don't get your ambitions mixed up with your actual abilities
     
  7. I like chrome
     
    LOU WELLS, willys36 and dana barlow like this.
  8. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,905

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Avoid Bad Taste!
     
    Kume, dana barlow, zzford and 3 others like this.
  9. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    TLDR <--- (to long didn't read)

    cliff notes ...---> ( )
     
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  10. mike bowling
    Joined: Jan 1, 2013
    Posts: 3,560

    mike bowling
    Member

    That would have taken me a month to type out!!
    Lots of info. though.
     
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  11. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And even more important...DO NOT, under ANY circumstance, let your wife find out how much of it you are actually spending!!! Probably best, if you arent really sure yourself. :p
     
  12. wsdad
    Joined: Dec 31, 2005
    Posts: 1,259

    wsdad
    Member

    He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
     
  13. all good points.
    that must have taken some time. thanks for the effort.
    ayyyyyy!
     
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  14. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,905

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Haha! My biggest fear when I die is my wife will sell all my shit for what "I told her I paid for it all";)
     
  15. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Same here! I can see it now "9 fin '57 corvette valve covers, my husband said these were about $100, best offer. '57 corvette tach drive distributor, my husband said this cost him $50, make an offer. Edelbrock early olds valve covers, my husband said these were $100..." And so on...:eek:
     
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  16. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Thanks to those that liked it.
    Yes,I've always spelled bad,but build good rods. Sorry its long here,yet it was a lot of fairly short post back when done the first time,it's all together there cuz it was a save from a lost web site .
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
  17. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    I agree 100% with this one. Building hot rods professionally for 40+ years I've seen a lot of scary stuff on cars. A lot of times it's guys building at home and get over their head, they don't have the experience to know how to do it right. Unfortunately I've seen way too much bad and scary work that was done by shops as well, really bad when a guy pays to have his car screwed up. "Pros" can be over their heads as well. Bad welding gotta be number 1. Nothing like suspension mounts falling off the frame! Poor engineering in general happens all the time. Never done bodywork but want to give it a try, if it doesn't go well you probably won't kill anyone so go for it. Never set up brakes but want to try, might out to rethink that one, people lives depend on them!
    Not saying a guy can't learn how to do things right but please, learn, don't guess.
     
  18. Take a breath every now and then....
     
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  19. Good read Dana,I appreciate you taking all the time to share your thoughts.

    HRP
     
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  20. Jibs
    Joined: May 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,893

    Jibs
    Member

    Hey falcongeorge, I'll give you $125 for those 9 fin Corvette valve covers now, just so you won't worry about the wife selling them for $100. Where do I send the check?
     
  21. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Not me Kerry, I'm taking it all with me.
    Well, at least one part, only because it's light and doesn't take up much room.
    Started buying up any OEM Chevy hiperf stuff for my 327 many years ago, found an NOS (in the GM box) aluminum intake for the L79, paid $200 for it, was brousing that big auction site the other day and saw the exact same one new in the box for $1200.:eek:
     
  22. don't worry guys, in that event, i will help them take care of that problem for you.;):D
     
  23. LOU WELLS
    Joined: Jan 24, 2010
    Posts: 2,754

    LOU WELLS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from IDAHO

    When you bring the project home and hose the vermin out in the drive way air the tires up to 60 lbs and back the brakes off. This will make it easier to push around during the formative years....-----
     
    Spoggie likes this.
  24. Didn't actually read the entire post but I can tell you something to avoid in a build. You should avoid checking the belt tension with the motor running. o_O:rolleyes::D
     
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  25. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    DOH
    Way to go Bart!
     
  26. Thanks Dana! good read.
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  27. If you make it shiny, buy wax.

    Sorry Dana.....:p:D
    Appreciate your ideas. Years of experience has to be shared.
     
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  28. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 864

    patterg2003

    Thank you for posting these experienced words of wisdom. Agreed a good read & a lot of good points.
     
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  29. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Hey, cmon! At least have the courtesy to wait till I croak!! MAN You guys!!!:p
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Voice of experience Benno?:D
     
    dana barlow likes this.

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