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Event Coverage Thieves... And PayPal...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Good advice from Ryan....

    Don't blame the 1099 thing on Paypal; the feds are after tax money, Paypal has no choice in the matter. Given all the full-time commercial sellers on eBay these days it was just a matter of time before this happened, I'm surprised it took this long. And if you as the seller don't want to pay the sellers fee, then you're the scammer.

    With all this said, it's also important that you document your transactions. Have pics of whatever you're buying/selling, take pics of the package before mailing/after receiving. Make damn sure your selling description is accurate. And sellers, make sure you package properly; when I get a package that's done poorly and stuff has gone missing or is damaged, that's on you. If loading up a flat-rate box with weight, I'd strongly suggest double-boxing it and not being skimpy with shipping tape.
    Hnstray and Squablow like this.
  2. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,455

    Corn Fed

    I don’t have PP but have bought and sold many items using USPS money orders. I have never had a problem with one of those transactions. My thoughts on using a USPS MO instead of PP is that if someone commits a scam with one, they are committing fraud with the wrath of the US Government staring them in the face. PP ain’t gonna throw someone in jail but the Feds sure can.

    If as a buyer of one of my items you are too inconvenienced to run to the Post Office to get a MO then you probably don’t want it very bad. And if you’re a seller and won’t accept my USPS MO that’s your right. We all need to do whatever makes us feel comfortable.
  3. I will use PayPal to buy things because I have it linked to a credit card. But I will not accept Paypal because I do not want someone to have access to my account that can withdraw money. I guess I could open an account just for receiving money, but I don't sell much and prefer a Postal Money order since I worked for the post office for 30 years and like to keep my old buddies in business...☺
  4. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 3,227


    Lots of good info here. I have had scammers contact me via ads in the wanted section but were easy to spot. I have bought and sold items here to and from Hambers with no problem but researched them and spoke with them. Even sent parts to some and told em send a check when the parts arrive-never a problem-just did with a "pay it forward"free part I sent, received postage that same day-no issue. Also sent personal check for a high dollar item to a hamber and told him send the item when the check cleared. No issue but had dealt with him before. With others I don't know-it's paypal.
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  5. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 225

    leon bee
    from Arkansas!

    Hmmm. Sit here in my underwear and click my mouse? Or get up, get dressed, get the car started and drive to the post office and stand in line for the crabby old lady to sell me a MO?
    XXL__, olscrounger and 6inarow like this.
  6. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 16,974

    from California

    paypal is only good for BUYERS and offers nothing to sellers except the chance to give your parts away to scammers. a general rule of thumb is never accept paypal for more than you are prepared to lose.

    for those of you that think having a separate bank account for paypal and not keeping money in it is somehow going to help you when someone tries to steal your parts in a paypal claim you are mistaken.
  7. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 3,227


    I have sent off alot of free parts via "pay it forward" and it is difficult to estimate shipping. Have to go get a cost then come back and let the hamber know-pain in the butt. Now I just ask their address, give em a guesstimate on cost and mail it. Some items were pricey to ship as well but never have had an issue. Sometimes paid by paypal, a personal check and sometimes cash in an envelope.Never been burned by a member. Just do some research prior.
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,088


    But I HAVE one of those, in perfect condition! Do you want it or not? You send the money via Eastern Union and I'll remove it from the fully restored Henway.
    Dan Hay, Hnstray and olscrounger like this.
  9. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 18,470

    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    This makes no sense to me. You are worried that PayPal is gonna single you out and take money out of your account? That's a bit on the paranoid side... I mean, what makes you think your bank is any more noble than PayPal? I promise you - it's not. PayPal is a bank.

    Or maybe you are worried someone will file a false claim? That's not how it works. If someone files a claim against you, PayPal holds the funds... and they don't release it to either party until they finish their investigation. And in case of a "return," they don't release the money back to the buyer until tracking shows the item was shipped back and the seller confirms as much.

    Is there a chance in there for some dude to screw you by sending back a brick and PayPal siding with the bad guy? Absolutely. But no more chance than someone doing the same with USPS who, as I understand it, doesn't even do an investigation.
  10. I wouldn't go that far. A few years ago I sold off all the miscellaneous car/bike parts I'd acquired (stuff too nice to throw away, but didn't fit anything I owned or didn't need) on eBay and had good results. I only had issues with two sales; one was my fault (poor shipping packaging causing some damage, a partial refund made the seller happy), and the other was two knuckleheads who got into a bidding war over some parts that quite frankly IMO weren't worth what they bid. I even warned both of them in PMs that they were overbidding. They both ignored me, and the buyer then complained it wasn't 'as advertised'. Due to my warning PM, his complaint went nowhere.

    eBay/Paypal have their issues, but short of only doing in-person cash transactions, they're pretty safe. And no risk of being robbed at gunpoint when you show up. And when you live in the boondocks like I do, they give you a much larger marketplace. I shipped parts all over the US and to Canada, far better responses than I got trying local sales.
  11. mlinton1941
    Joined: Oct 17, 2012
    Posts: 555


    all I have to say is PAY-PAL SUCKS, if you have a problem - its all electronic, you don't talk to anyone, I had a problem and could NEVER get through to anyone. No pay-pal for me !!! just say'n
  12. Fourdy
    Joined: Dec 9, 2001
    Posts: 426


    I just completed a claim through paypal and they settled it within 2 days in my favor. Just had to show what the problem was. (long delay and still no shipping) Nothing but good to say about them.

    61cad and Squablow like this.
  13. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 5,674

    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    I sold a pair of spindles that I had listed on here to a man in Florida who paid with Pay Pal, all he got was an empty box. No since arguing with the shipping agent USPS. PP made it easy for me to refund the money to the customer. As for not being able to contact PP, my accountant suggested I have a designated bank account for Pay Pal transfers and just today I called the 800 number, got a nice lady and opened a new designated PP bank account and closed the old one, took 5 minutes. For my transactions on here and my business I take USPO money orders, personal checks and PP Friends and Family. I quit taking credit cards because of the high fees. Also, I print out every PP transaction both in and out for my records and always put the address and what they bought on the printout.
  14. mr.chevrolet
    Joined: Jul 19, 2006
    Posts: 6,207


    i'm not using PayPal.
    Montana1 likes this.
  15. ebfabman
    Joined: Mar 10, 2009
    Posts: 567


    I have a paypal account but prefer U.S. Postal Money Orders.
  16. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 18,470

    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    I hear you guys that hate PayPal. I really do... and I get it...

    But realize this - I handle thousands of PayPal transactions a year through my store and I've "policed" a shit ton more deals here in the classifieds that any one user could have possibly done. And with all that experience I am saying this:

    If you want to buy something online from an individual and you want protection if the deal goes bad, use PayPal. If you are worried even a little bit about the seller/buyer I would not recommend using a money order or a check... and if you do, know that there is nothing I can do for you if the deal goes bad.
    fordf1trucknut and Squablow like this.
  17. Yup.
    Paypal can be so handy.
    Paypal can also be a shoplifters best friend.
    Over the years as I saw my non-ebay business go from 100% checks and money orders, because that was all there was,
    then start changing slowly to 50% checks+m.o. and 50% electronic, then
    to 90% electronic and nearly no checks, the old hazards merely evolved into a different form.
    I believe I must be one of Paypals earliest sign-ups.
    I still use them, but on a very small scale.
    After ebay came along, and a decade of being a large PowerSeller, I simply got tired of the people always looking for an angle.
    Not the 10k+ per month any more, but I'm happy :)
    No one has solved the problem of "bad checks" and shoplifters, whether by paypal or by check,
    OR sellers that want to run off with the money via check or Paypal.
    Things get shuffled around a bit every now and then to give a feeling of safety for a few moments, but people find ways, and not a whole lot has improved much. It just feels like it for a time.
    I've had more attempted shopliftings with Paypal, and Bill Point (ebays joke for a time till they scrapped it and bought rival paypal), than I have had with bad-check writers, but once you learn the possible tricks, you can head them off at the pass, and very few will succeed.
    I'll admit that out of thousands of transactions, only a small handful have made off with anything substantial, but to keep those odds in your favor, you have to keep up with every new trick they invent, and every new chess-move you must take yourself, or you could get a nasty surprise I have seen others get.
    I have a long list of stories about ppl who have tried to return rusted precision machine parts in melted cardboard boxes after they have been sliding around in the back of an open pickup for two months, denying that a box arrived even tho they SIGNED for it, or hurry hurry hurry SHIP IT NOW before the bad check clears, or the stolen card gets reversed....
    very few actually got away with it, but it still makes me glad I don't deal with that any more :)
    Paypal has its hazards just like the other methods.
    ALWAYS GET A TRACKING NUMBER or you automatically lose.
    Even if you win a dispute easily and decisively, you could find Paypal pulling money from your bank account 90 days later if a buyer convinces a card company to do a chargeback without returning an item they decided to keep and use.
    Paypal WILL pass it on. It's in your contract.
    Not common, but I'm still glad I don't have to mess with that :)

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  18. true.

    NEVER sell anything via PP picked up in person without getting a tracking number for at least SOME OF THE ITEMS or Paypal will automatically decide you never delivered the item(s).
    if you ebay much, you are GUARANTEED that the first time you send out shipments in envelopes without tracking numbers just ONE TIME, about 80% will claim non-arrival because you can't prove it.
    some even SIGN for it, then claim envelope never arrived.
    OK, I'm off my soap box now :)
    can you tell I'm happy I don't mess with it any more?

    49ratfink likes this.
  19. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,088


    How about this? HAMBank

    All payments for classified ad transactions go through the bank of HAMB, and a 3% fee comes out for support of this website?
    6inarow likes this.
  20. If that were possible, Ryan would already be doing it....
  21. I had a similar situation quite a few years ago. It was slightly worse in that it was my wife attempting to purchase some rare Cameo parts as a present for me. It wasn't a lot of money, just $200, but it was the fact that she was so upset at being scammed, and not being able to surprise me on my birthday with the tailgate emblem and lights.
    I contacted the post office, and they didn't say pound sand, but the cop out was that the amount of money lost was not enough to start a full investigation.
    I was under the same impression that the postal authorities would help chase down the scammer. The assholes didn't seem to realize, that $200 times 10 or so victims adds up to a lot of money and a total loss of confidence in the system.
    Until Paypal happened, I resorted to dealing with only known and trusted people or established dealers. When buying parts, it might cost more to deal that way, but at least I had piece of mind.
    Paypal may seem expensive at times, but I look at as a risk reward issue, and don't mind paying a little more for the protection and potential piece of mind.
    I have made some strange purchases of auto and electronic items, and there have been two occasions where the item has not arrived. I contacted Paypal, and had my refund within 48 hours.
    I hope this is helpful,
    Hnstray likes this.
  22. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,086


    A lot of this could be avoided if the powers that be didn't allow newbies to post to the ads until a certain number of posts on the forum like maybe 25 or some other number. Scammers would not hang around that long if they had to contribute to the forums.
  23. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 18,470

    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    In the 22 years of hosting this forum and policing bad deals, I don't know of a single instance where a buyer or seller was screwed when PayPal was used.

    I know there have been deals where the buyer felt like the part was misrepresented and filed a claim much to displeasure of the seller, but I literally can't think of a single time in 22 years where a dude payed by PayPal and got nothing in return.
    neatoldclassics and Squablow like this.
  24. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 18,470

    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    Like I said, 95% of these scams are through the wanted ads. But, I guess I could make the wanted ads invisible to users with under 50 posts or something.

    We make the classifieds invisible to users under 100 posts on I know a lot of people think this works... It doesn't.
    Hot Rods Ta Hell, pat59 and 6inarow like this.
  25. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 24,198


    There is a damned big difference between the "we pretty well know who he is and where to find him" thing than someone who has no post history, no regular participation on the board and is unknown. A lot of us have ordered T5 to flathead adapters from Dwight Bond and paid with a money order but again we know who he is and he isn't very hard to find. You have 7000+ posts, Usually have several items for sale and may or may not answer requests for parts but guys can easily check your history and decide it they want to deal with you.
    I've only posted one parts request in the classifieds and seldom ever even look there for parts but that one request brought a couple of real shaky offers from people with real low post counts.
    Personally if you add says no paypal I would probably pass it over and look for the same item from someone who did take paypal. It is a pain in the butt for me to go to town, buy a money order and send it off and wait the extra days before the item is shipped.
  26. Okie Pete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,927

    Okie Pete

    I'm a rock and stick sort of guy when it comes to this new fangled tech . But PayPal helped me make a bad circmstance into a good one . I had ordered a set of hand made tanks for a motorcycle . Things didn't go as agreed . But PayPal helped
  27. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 14,186

    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    i use paypal indirectly. i just call a friend/relative and say "buy this for me" then give them cash.
  28. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,322


    Here's the other side, I live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere,(literally), I have no cell service, so no reason to own a new style computer hand held phone, so I don't, no mail delivery, spotty parcel delivery and slow computer access to the net. Honestly, there are those of us out here, and I like it that way. However, my bank refuses to believe me and is pushing hard at forcing me to go to electronic banking, my fuel card company wants to charge me for sending me a bill unless I go online with them, when I go to the bank, they want to know why I want a large amount of cash and I gotta wait a couple days for them to round it up, then the guy I pass the cash to, his bank wants to know where he got it?
    I'm older, my credit score is above 850, and nobody is gonna tell me how I do business with them, I got my stash by face to face handshake honour deals, and instead of cooperating, I told my fuel supplier that if they charge me for a paper bill, I'll charge them double for processing computer time, cause my time is also worth something and the bank? Told them that the day I can't go in my branch and talk to someone face to face is the day they lose all my business to someone who will talk to my ugly face.
    I grew up in a time of honour, and I have no faith in the electronic world, scammers get away with old folks money, hide in the netherland to do it again, it has literally become an industry without penalty, with the onus on the buyer to sniff out said scammer.
    When I list something for sale, you gotta come see it, I'll only talk turkey to your eyeball and no other way, so, you can see what I got is real, and I can see who I've dealt with. Yep I'm a dinosaur, and will have it no other way. LeRoy.
  29. pontiac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 733

    from Winona, WV

    Someone tried this on me here a couple months ago through a wanted ad I have posted. It was a new user, just registered, no posts.. They claimed their "buddy" had the part I was looking for and gave me a price that was 1/4 of what it was worth.. wanted me to send a wire to western union to their local Walmart, etc... had scam written all over it.

    The thing with selling and using PayPal though - anytime I sell something, it's well documented, pictures, etc... Also always send it with tracking. I had someone try to do a charge back on a $500 spot lamp I sold on ebay. They claimed they didn't get it a month after they purchased it. Fortunately I had the receipt from when I mailed it along with pictures of the part boxed, label and tracking info showing it was delivered to the correct address that was supplied... PayPal denied their claim.
  30. Stu D Baker
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,413

    Stu D Baker
    from Illinois

    Thanks Ryan, for helping to educate the masses. Hope it helps.
    Hnstray likes this.

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