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Technical The tradition of brush painting a hot rod

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Butch Clay, Oct 31, 2014.

  1. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 861

    metlmunchr
    Member

    My son does high end house painting for a living. Working now on some 9000 sq ft crib with ceilings up to 30 ft high. A lot of the work he does uses oil base enamel on the trim. I've heard him mention something that can be added to enamel to make it flow out slick enough that it looks like its been sprayed.
     
  2. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    When my Dad was an apprentice in the late forties, early fifties they used to paint hearses with a brush. Yes, there was a lot of wet sanding and hand buffing but there was not as much hurry back then. He used to say that the old timers could lay down a coat without a brush mark and still have a ciggy hanging out the side of their mouth with an inch of ash hanging off of it. Poetry in motion.
    We used to slow down 2-pack paint by putting the gun in the 'fridge for a while and if you only painted a couple of panels, you put the gun back in the 'fridge and sprayed the next day. I've got away with doing that for a week. Just don't do what I did once, put the gun in the fridge and got distracted by work, family crisis and a spur of the moment trip away. You guessed it, rock hard paint by the time I remembered. Oh well, needed a new gun anyway.
     
    Unibodyguy likes this.
  3. I've not put the entire gun in the fridge, but I have dumped the gun contents into a paint cup with lid and put the cup in the fridge. How long did your fridge stink for?
     
  4. Butch Clay
    Joined: Sep 27, 2011
    Posts: 221

    Butch Clay
    Member

    lol, funny stories, I guess that's what it's all about hey?

    And thanks for the advice/tips etc.

    So on my way home I stopped by my metal supplier and bought some scrap flat sheet metal cut off pieces. I'm gonna do some testing starting with the epoxy primer.

    My first goal is to establish the correct application methods (I use that term loosely) with just the primer. That way I can get the right method down. I figure I could take the sheet metal and prep it, tape some sections off, and try different brush strokes etc. I don't know! lol! I've never done this so we will have to just see what happens.

    I'll post updates and photos.
     
    brEad likes this.
  5. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    I use the beer 'fridge so the door usually gets opened fairly often. Actually when it went hard the gun was at the back but my wife noticed the smell when she was putting the Xmas ham in there. This is a woman who stands in the staging lanes at the drags sucking in the nitro fumes so she new there was some solvent in there.
     
  6. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    Don't forget to try some pieces propped up vertically as you'll need to replicate all painting angles. It's like those that paint all their panels off the car ,with doors laying flat, and then wonder why the colour (Australian spelling)is different when they bolt it up next to a quarter panel which was painted in the vertical plane.
     
    rpm56 and bowlingball like this.
  7. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

    Metalmuncher, floetrol is used in latex, it's a must for eggshell.

    I was waiting for the moparts thread to pop up, I read all 100+ pages of that thing.

    Butch Clay, you have the omni already, get the slowest reducer you can find and give it a try, you might cut the amount of reducer as well as you experiment. I'm interested in the results. Get a good brush.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  8. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 968

    AmishMike
    Member

    After couple years in the army - painted number of jeeps and trucks with brush - convinced my son we could do decent job on a CJ-5 resto/mod at home. Since he had spent $5000 on previous Jeep he finally agreed. Local "farmer hardware" store had Caterpillar yellow cheap. Thinned it with some gas ( just like the army ) and went at it. Hood was biggest open flat area that needed some touch up with spray bomb to eliminate brush marks. Never touched it with any sand paper - looked fine. Guess you call that a 10 foot or 20 foot paint job. Hell, jeeps get used and dirty anyway. Drive your rod and have fun - they are not - NOT - all "mantel pieces" for display...
     
  9. keep your eyes out for some o f this..... paint 2.jpg paint 1.jpg
     
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  10. Stu D Baker
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,755

    Stu D Baker
    Member
    from Illinois

    Doesn't get any more traditional than this.

    Scan_Pic0004.jpg
     
    Unibodyguy likes this.
  11. If I were going to try using the paint your talking about with a brush, I would buy the slowest reducer they had and mix it by half of the recommended amount. If you did one panel at a time in the shade on a cool day it would probably work fine.
     
    Frankie47 likes this.
  12. no55mad
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 1,956

    no55mad
    Member

    A friend recently rolled on the paint and immediately came behind it (via a helper) with a heat gun. The heat made the paint flow out smoother. He said he got this tip off the internet and it worked great - can't remember what paint he used.
     
  13. cheepsk8
    Joined: Sep 5, 2011
    Posts: 641

    cheepsk8
    Member
    from west ky

    31Vicky is right about this one. It is an option for someone with plenty of time. If I were to try it, I think I would prepare an entire fender for practice, and of course a darker solid color. I remember in trade school back in the late 70s, we sanded an old F1 ford pickup that was brushed, and I do mean brushed with a single stage enamel, smoothed it to 1500 grit and buffed the living crap out of it. It was a darker green color and there really wasn't any shade difference from panel to panel. The man picked it up and was sure we did a repaint. He never knew. Looking back at the total time for the cutting and buffing, the repaint would have been quicker. I would go for it, you can fix anything.
     
  14. You can achieve a fine finish by brush painting...the paint cares not how it is applied. For enamels, boiled linseed oil or penetrol are excellent flow agents, however both tend to yellow the paint somewhat. These materials will significantly reduce brush strokes, but at the expense of greatly increased dry times, thus more opportunity for dust/bugs to imbed themselves in the finish.

    If it were me, I'd thin the paint with white spirits to the consistency of milk and forgo reducers in favor of adding a small amount of drying oil (Japan drier, cobalt drier, or manganese drier). The driers actually speed up cure time, (and in the case of manganese, dry from inside out) so one must work quickly, but aid in creating a very hard surface which takes cutting and polishing quite well. Yes, that means more brush strokes and wet sanding, but the result is worth it IMO. It's a much quicker process.

    I've been wanting to do a 'tech' on this; will have to break out the paint & brushes this week and post it up.
     
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  15. joeycarpunk
    Joined: Jun 21, 2004
    Posts: 4,446

    joeycarpunk
    Member
    from MN,USA

    If you have more time than money I suppose it's a option but with material cost and so many cheap spray guns available, I don't know why you would try to do a large amount or surface this way.
     
  16. Same reason some like to work with lead or torch weld; sometimes the journey is as enjoyable as the destination.
     
    -Brent-, RobC, Atwater Mike and 5 others like this.
  17. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Hey

    There is a build threat on here about a "handscrapeld hopped-up RPU", or something like that.
    It's such a nice an time specific build but the last pages are about painting it with old paint. Very informative threat!
     
  18. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,424

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    Amishmikes post made me recall a story a friend told me years ago. Him and a buddy wanted to paint a car & needed advise. They were teenagers, no money or equipment. They asked a guy in the neighborhood who was a painter for help. He told them to cut it with gas and put it on with a paint roller. Friend said it turned out good, but probably a 20 footer I would imagine.
     
  19. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 7,419

    A Boner
    Member

    Which hot rod is more fun to drive, one with a $10,000.00 paint job, or one with a $100.00 do it yourself brush job? Which ones get driven more?
    You give up more than money with a expensive paint job!
     
  20. Martin Harris
    Joined: Aug 3, 2014
    Posts: 328

    Martin Harris

    I use Epiglass marine paint, designed for good results either brushed or sprayed. I Spray large panels but brush fenders etc.
    Use a good quality brush.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  21. A couple of years ago I painted the suspension arms, running gear and the chassis on my O/T car. The body was resprayed at a mate's body shop and I could have done the chassis bits there but didn't want them to leave the workshop so that I could have more control over what stage in the refurbishment they were done. I decided to paint them myself using a satin tekaloid paint. I could have sprayed them using the simple set up I have here but decided to brush paint them as that's what the product is intended for.

    I prepped the parts up as if I was having them sprayed - there's no short cut because you're brushing the paint on. You have to be just as careful to provide a dust free painting area. I spent a lot of time hoovering and wet the floor down while I was painting. You must use a top quality brush. I used uPol Easy One to fill the seams in the suspension arms and uPol Acid 8 to etch prime. Two coats of undercoat and three top coats.

    I'm very pleased with the finish - the degree of "satin" is just right, the brush marks drop out after ten minutes, it's touch dry in 2 hours and overcoatable in 24 hours.

    The advantages are no masking and no overspray. Amount of paint used is much less - I think that I will have used about 350ml of the 1 litre I bought. Cost of the paint was £25 per litre for the top coat and £18 per litre for the undercoat. A Purdey brush is about £12 for a 1" brush. I got it from these guys - they specialise in paints for vintage commercial vehicles, steam engines and canal boats;

    http://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/

    It is a tekaloid type of paint and I'm sure there must be a similar product in the USA.

    Here's a few pictures - difficult to get images that show it properly but I'm very pleased with it. The grey is called "Raddle" and tones nicely with the lighter Morgan Sports Grey I've used for the body. Came from Craftsmaster Paints. I'm going to use the gloss version to paint my steel 1921 T Model Ford Modified but will set up a temporary booth to get dust to an absolute minimium.

    I think it has shown me that it is possible to get a good finish using a brush - subject to the right prep, good paint, good brushes and careful technique. Someone who came to look at the bits yesterday thought they had been powdercoated - I agree with that, but they cost a fraction of the price to do and can be touched up easily. Also the bearings didn't have to come out (as they would with powdercoating) and, being Citroen, that's an expensive job because you usually end up having to destroy the large retaining nuts and seals to remove them.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Most catalyzed paint can be used with different strength catalysts. IE faster or slower, this is to allow for weather conditions. Perhaps the key is to look for a catalyst that produces the slowest drying time.

    Squablo mentioned several coats and then color sanding and also the use of shellacs and lacquers. He was correct on all counts, although shellac was used primarily on cloth tops.

    A lot of jalopies were painted with brushes because of cost. One must remember that a jalopy was a car built with a budget in mind; a dozen eggs, some beans, a crescent wrench and a quart of paint, oh yea and don't forget thirty five cents for the drive in, we can put Henry in the trunk this week. Results were not always optimal but it was damned sure better painted then rusting. ;)
     
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  23. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 7,419

    A Boner
    Member

    Lots of beyond "patina" hot rods could use a quick scuff and brush paint job. Preserve some of that vintage tin until you, or the next owner has the time or money to take it to the next level. Slow down Mother Nature..... seal that ever expanding surface rust under some waterproof paint.
     
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  24. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    It's a part af this game to look at you newly found car/jalopy, you spend 10-20 bucks on, your 50 bucks pile of hop up parts, look at you wallet and Think; I'm 20 bucks short for at 10 bucks paint job. Okay, out comes the brushes, and the paint that was surpose to just go on my frame. I got have money for gas too.

    So it's a shame we dont se more of that kind of early rods. Or at least it is to me. That is the essens of traditional hot rodding.
    Is a traditional hot rod shop a contradicrion in terms? A traditional shop is a driveway and a toolbox.

    No disrespect to the guys who need help, but the. It's just a hot rod shop
     
  25. There's brush painting and then there's "Brush painting"
    If the mindset is to achieve a quality finish with a brush, the out come is likely to be much different than someone who has "painting the garage door" on his honey do list. Most people have not ever tried to achieve a high quality finish with a brush in their hand.

    Brushes leave a lot of paints and additives off of the table but having those and wanting to brush paint it are mutually exclusive.

    My hands would fall asleep, cramp up, and I'd drop the brush before I could finish one frame rail, so I'll be spraying.
     
  26. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,551

    Cosmo49
    Member

    As a daily driver only vehicle owner of a '49 1/2 ton I'll be damned if I'm going to put a 10k paint job into my truck and go in for groceries all the time worrying about Lord knows what could happen. People see my truck and actually FEAR parking next to it, I have seen it folks. There are many that look at her and you see on their faces, 'What's the point?'. Brush strokes and all are what I am after in a 65 yo truck, for metal protection, ease of touch-up maintenance, economy. I go to rural 'pasture party' steam-old vehicle shows and have found people popping the hood and sitting in her. I'm only a caretaker for the short time I'm here on earth, after I'm gone it will be someone else's expression of who they are (bagged, 10k paint, etc.).

    Thanks to the OP for not fearing the outcome of a very debatable subject and looking forward to the constructive, informative discussion forthcoming.
    Regards,

    Cosmo in the '49
     
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  27. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Hey cosmo

    Trucks is the founding point of; why offer so much on paint you can't have fun!

    My dad has an Bedford truck, it's the "ugly" readheaded step-brother of the Chevy AD trucks, he brush painted everything but the cab.
    We are gonna do a back of the shop paintjob on it, but he keeps having so much fun with it, painting the cab has to wait.

    We use a cheap industrial/shop grade enamel, and brush it on. If you use a little more then the can advices, it flows so nice together it looks like sprayed on.

    I used for my restored cars, on all parts that is lower then the body. It looks so damn good.

    Do you have any pictures of you truck, where it's possible to see how it came out?

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1414945748.576852.jpg

    This is his truck, everything but the cab is brush painted, black.
    Cab is gonna get two tone in black and green. Same colour scheme as the truck Company from the small rural town me and my dad originates from.
     
    brEad likes this.
  28. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 772

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Watched my neighbor paint his OT car with Rustoleum and a couple of foam brushes about 20 years ago and no fooling it was a very decent paint job for less than 25 bucks. Looked decent till the day he traded it. {garaged nightly}
     
  29. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    I second the Sign Painters One-Shot approach.

    And just an FYI PPG, who now owns Matthews, who now owns One-Shot has within their Matthews paint line a product called Field Master. Basically its One Shot in gallon cans and is its own tinting and mixing system. It is made to be sprayed with the addition of a hardener or brushed on straight out of the can. Its great stuff and is still used in the sign industry. Ive painted flat aluminum panels gloss black that except for a few specs of dirt we confused for pieces of black plexi glass, no color sanding, no buffing.

    Not sure exactly how deep your motives go, but I would at a minimum spray the primer, two reasons, its designed to work that way and you wont have double the brush strokes to deal with. Just my nickles worth.
     
    -Brent- likes this.
  30. Butch Clay
    Joined: Sep 27, 2011
    Posts: 221

    Butch Clay
    Member

    I appreciate that, thanks for the input. Interesting about the gallon cans.

    It got cold pretty fast here in Wisconsin so it put a temporary dampener on my idea. I'm gonna try it, just to see what happens. If I can get my dam heat back up and running I'll be in good shape.

    Regardless, it's been an interesting thread. I've learned a lot from everybody.

    Thanks again.
    Butch Clay
     

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