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History The (T) Bucket List

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jive-Bomber, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Maybe it's the same reason a Deuce guy will drive hundreds of miles, to score a nice set of wheels he's always wanted. He wants his car to look "right". So, why not T Bucket guys?
     
  2. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Sorry man, I just can't agree with your thoughts on this one. Just like steel early Fords, these cars have their own unique history, parts, and styling cues that make them RIGHT ON, or double ugly. I've found the easiest way to end up with double ugly is to ignore the details and just build "whatever". My time to build stuff that is not on the clock for me is so rare that I don't and can't consider anything I build disposable. The stuff I build my clients equally has to be as right as their ideas and dreams will allow me to build it. That's no time for run of the mill, disposable either.
     
  3. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Kevin, that car was in a 1932 movie called The Hot Saturday. So ya, I thought the same thing when I saw the hair pins on it. As a matter of fact, it was on TCM a few years ago when I first saw it, and I hit the "info" button on my remote to check the year of the movie. About as early as it gets for hair pins.

    All that said (And Kevin I know you and most of the others in this discussion know the difference!) The car I am referring to, and a couple others on here ISN'T a T-Bucket! This particular car could be called a Gow Job, a Cut Down, and even has some elements of an early modified. Just because it's "T" bodied, doesn't make it a T-Bucket! There are many different ways to built a "T" based car, more so than other early Ford derived cars, but inclusion of a "T" body itself doesn't make it a T-Bucket.
     
  4. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I have to agree, that whole who cares and they are disposable "simple" and cheap is just nonsense.
    There is a right and wrong way of approaching different builds and the T bucket is no exception.

    When I started out building my T RPU, I thought that I could cut corners and do it cheaply.

    That idea soon went out the window and my build is neither simple or cheap.
    But I am doing my best to get it right and so far so good.
    It's not a T bucket but it is a steel bodied T based hot rod.

    It's been a long haul and it has evolved along the way but it has been and is fun.
    I'm betting that driving it will be even better. :cool:

    roadster outside ! 001 (2).jpg roadster outside ! 002 (2).jpg roadster outside ! 005 (2).jpg

    Since these pictures were taken, more has been done including the Rod Tops top and new MT products Lincoln front drum brakes.
    Removable cycle fenders ( for inspection and registration) are in the works and soon it will all come apart for finishing and shiny stuff. :cool:
    Larry
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
  5. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    I wish I could hit the "like" button more than once.:D
     
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  6. When I first joined this group and after reading it for a while, I thought most everyone here was into A's and 32's. But it appears that there are several of us who really like traditionally-styled T's. :)
     
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  7. Spex84
    Joined: Mar 12, 2015
    Posts: 172

    Spex84
    Member
    from Canada

    I used to dislike Ts because they were so ubiquitous and overdone (and often poorly proportioned/awkwardly detailed). But an article on Tommy Ivo's T clued me in...that car has great proportions. When I read that Ivo literally measured Grabowski's T in order to plan his own, I went back to examine photos of the kookie T, and honestly I still like Ivo's more. It's probably the only T-bucket that meets the definition of "traditional" (at least by HAMB standards) that I actually like...most of my other favorite Ts are track-style, gow jobs, modifieds, etc etc.

    Years later I found photos of the "Sunkist" and "Moonkist" Ts by Randy Bianchi, and Eichstedt's "Leg Show", and realized these cars have fantastic proportions too. Not HAMB-traditional, sure, but still really sharp. Park them next to any number of clunky imitators, and their stylistic superiority will be immediately apparent.
     
  8. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    I absolutely agree with you in essence...BUT...not on every thread.
    This isn't the thread to be hard line.
    We have that with the other thread you started about getting the ugly out of T's...and its full of great ideas on how to avoid the visual hiccups and keep all the parts working together. Pretty awesome stuff actually.

    But there has to be some threads where people can post pics of their cars without fear of getting hammered for their car not being up to such exacting standards.
    Like it or not, these really are starter Hot rods for a lot of people.
    T's are where they cut their teeth so to speak and get their introduction to the Hot Rod community.

    Sometimes a slight nudge works better than a boot to the butt to get people moving down the right path...ya know?
    Outside the hardline thread I think we need a little more tolerance...
    Although I admit for some builds that pop up, the right word might be compassion. LoL
     
  9. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    I'm thinking Ivo must have measured up the "Lightning Bug" version before Norm worked it over to become the "Kookie Kar".
    I really think Norm made the changes he made to his T to make it "pop" on B&W TV screens.
    He definately went over the top with it...but how else to make it stand out?
    Cool as Lightning Bug was it just didn't have that screen presence that the Kookie Kar had.
    Sometimes you gotta slop on some extra thick makeup to make the star shine...and I think Norm knew that.
    I know it certainly worked, because he created an ICON from a simple little T.

    Sunkist and Moonkist show just how good the 70's T bucket could potentially look...but also made it clear just how many got it wrong! LoL
     
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  10. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Ya, I gotcha. I do have a tendency to make stuff a bit more than it is sometimes. I do take this stuff pretty seriously.
     
  11. I could not agree more! Well stated.
     
    need louvers ? likes this.
  12. Mine was built with a nod to the Kookie Kar, but looking at it now side on, it has proportions closer to the Ivo car. And this is a whole bunch shorter, 90" wheelbase compared to Ivo's 101"! Hasn't seen the road in 10 years, and won't be 'till it's had a freshen up (something to do with a cat pissing on all the chrome), but it just may end up looking more like the Lightning Bug next go around.

    SRFCTY AB&J Show (2).jpg

    Bear :)
     
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  13. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,699

    Koz
    Member

    I agree with everything mentioned above and add my own two cents.....

    It takes an enormous amount of planning and layout to get a bucket right. It's pretty hard to make a deuce look shitty and damn near impossible to build an ugly '40 but one misstep and a bucket looks like the driver is perched on a shopping cart. Seating position, access to pedals in a tight compartment, along with the logistics of packing everything into such a small package are challenging. I no longer build my T frames from rect. tubing instead fabing the siderails from 10ga. P&O with vintage rear crossmembers and a Lightning Bug style "bolt in" front crossmember. The difference is incredible. Getting them to have the stance is everything and if built well are reasonably priced but not cheap.

    This was the last of my old frames and as such is a bit of a hybrid but seating position was perfect. Olds, '78 case trans and '40 rear put it firmly in HAMB territory I believe.

    [​IMG]

    The same frame using the "A" rear crossmember.

    [​IMG]

    Much better. It's all in the details. My hat is off to anyone who can get one to set right.

    My personal favorites are Surf Citys, the Lightning Bug and (Von Francos clone), and of course the later version of Ivos' T. All have the look. The true test of a bucket is if you can see it with the driver in place and still have it look like you're in it, not on it!
     
  14. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,223

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    IMG_1461.JPG
    People have called this a T-Bucket, It is indeed a T-Roadster that can go from a Roadster to a Roadster P/U just by swapping the rear sections which I have both. I try to let them know that it represents an early hot rod that ran the lakes at Muroc/El Mirage roughly war time. The T-has been a part of my life for a couple of decades. Tom Fritz did a very cool oil painting of it in Turtle Deck form. I felt honored when Wally Parks stopped dead in his tracks and said "Now That's a Hot Rod!"
    IMG_1969.JPG
    When the Hi-Tech movement was in full swing, this guy (Nick) went across the street to his neighbors house and walked back across the street with pieces of a T-Roadster project started sometime in the early 60's. I'm not sure if this is one of Gene Scott's T's that appeared as part of his PSI Hot Rod venture, but it sure does have elements of what they sold back then.

    Nick got the project for under $700.00 as I recall-he then started to make stuff for it, hit swaps, look for parts thru his network of car pals and he ended up with something similar to what I experienced as my initiation to this Hot Rod activity. This was his 1st Hot Rod ever, he wasn't as into cars before, as he was into boats.

    This is a T-Bucket and he's driven it to the LARS every year since 1988. It's a fathers day tradition to pick up Nick on the way to Pomona and Oscar, Nick & Myself make the trek to hit the swap & look over everything that we can fit in just what little time we all have that day. Nick has a 30 Closed Cab Stake Bed that he bought in 1990. He's a Nam Vet and volunteers his time to the local VFW, set up Car Shows and he and other members of the VFW formed a car club and this car has been a big part of his life.

    I'm glad to have met Nick thru our bud Oscar and really feel that Nick succeeded in building a Timeless T- Bucket.
     
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  15. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    I'm surprised that the name Andy Brizio hasn't come up in this thread....and i'm sorry blue one but yes it is....shortened truck bed = T "bucket" not the material it's made of....steel is more interesting for two reasons: metal work and history. Just the fact a piece of sheetmetal has survived 100+ yrs means there are stories the imagination can conjure and sometimes even documented history....in the garage or conversation thats cool but on the road, behind the wheel it means squat
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
  16. Dragmaster's used to have a nice T kit with torsion bar suspension.
     
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  17. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Wrong. My RPU is NOT a T bucket. Yes the bed is short, but not shortened. I built the bed from scratch to the length that achieved the look I was going for.
    I could take the bed off and fabricate a nice turtle deck that would go on in it's place, something I just might consider in the future making my car a sort of "transformer" :)
    But, I repeat, NOT a T bucket, rather a T based hot rod.
    Most everyone here agrees, at least the guys who IMO count. :D

    Another thing. the material means squat ? Bullshit.
    I have ridden in and driven glass cars and also steel ones like my build.
    They feel different on the road. It's hard to explain, but once you have experienced it you know.
    That's not to say that steel is better or that glass is better.
    Just different is all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
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  18. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,008

    rfraze
    Member

    Here is a real steel T bucket I built in the 60s in Dallas area. Bought the body and axles for $35.
    IMG_0001.jpg
    It is the only picture that I have found and was before tailgate and tonneau. I cut the chassis pieces with a hack saw and hand file. Jerry Fain did the welding. The 301 and glide was connected to an open-drive banjo. I gas welded the headers w/stripped coat hangers. 56 F100 steering. JC Whitney candy red. Firestone Indy tires. 1740#. I put lots of miles on this one.
    I sold it to a kid at Inwood and NW Hwy. Paul Willis (Mesquite) owned it for years and changed color to orange.
    Bobby Wolcott's (wbrw32) T was a big inspiration during build.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
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  19. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    We can argue steel vs. glass all day, but the truth is, in a T-bucket, different eras are going to have a different "correct" material. All you have to do is read period magazines to corroborate.

    Early cars, (Ivo's and Grabowski's, etc.) should be steel. That's what was out there to build from in that '54-'59 era. Also, quite a few of the early T-buckets were indeed recycled, now outdated track roadsters built in the late forties and early fifties. Again, steel is gonna be the right thing to do.

    Late '59 though, Almquist and Speedway both came out with fiberglass bodies, and suddenly these cars BOOMED! Speedway went one step further and offered within months a simple tube frame, and the second era of T-buckets was ON! Again, check the magazines of the era, but by about '62 or so, the text takes on the airs of "Oh, you don't have a 'glass body on your car? Oh no...". Ya, partially sales driven writing, but nobody can deny that a 'glass bodied car built in the style of this era is not only correct, but preferable. It's absolutely no wonder that by '65 or so, every beach party movie and youth oriented bit of media had a T-bucket in it some where, sometimes heards of them.

    The last era, Fad "T"s, from about '68 or so, too, leaned heavily on 'glass bodies if not more so than the middle ages. Stuff like the Dan Woods beer truck body shown a page or so back, and all of the cut down side, raised back contortions (think Leg Show car) that Woods and others came up with were all glass, and now 45 years past in history.

    Might just be me, but with 57 years past of history with a given material, and the argument that in some of the eras of history it's the "correct" material, it's about time to stop turning our noses up at 'glass in this case...
     
  20. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Another thing. the material means squat ? Bullshit.
    I have ridden in and driven glass cars and also steel ones like my build.
    They feel different on the road. It's hard to explain, but once you have experienced it you know.
    That's not to say that steel is better of that glass is better.
    Just different is all.[/QUOTE]

    I'll agree with you on most of your post, but I have to disagree here. I've built many steel cars, and many 'glass cars. The only difference is in the quality of the build. I'll surmise it's because most steel cars are more like yours and built along the lines of a traditional hot rod, with standard, accept geometry and components.

    Kit 'buckets sometimes push the boundrys of what's "right" with regards to chassis and suspension set up. Stuff like steering set up, extreme body set backs, long wheelbases in front of the firewall, overspringing, all contribute to a strange road feel or "nervousness". It really doesn't have anything to do with the material the car is built of, but more the accepted "normal" of the genre of the build.

    I had a rider this weekend that spent the day rolling around in my car for a good chunk of the day. About half way through the day, he remarked "this car doesn't ride or feel like all the other T-Buckets I've ridden in". No, it doesn't. That's 'cause I'm a freak about geometry and chassis set up.
     
  21. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,223

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    Reading this took me to about 1973 and shopping with my grandmother (who raised me), and we hit this grocery store that was more like an "All in One" named Crawford's Market in Alhambra. It was a themed kinda place, kinda Dixie in its Architecture.
    They had a bitchen toy aisle!!!
    Every time I'd the hit place I'd look over this extended wheelbase 23-25 T-roadster that looked like a street driven T from the cowl to tail gate, but a dragster from the cowl forward. Looking back now, I seem to have known that many cars that became know as Fad T's were indeed glass-heck the one I was holding was plastic! It didn't matter then and doesn't matter now as it's what the individual feels makes them a hot rod member in anyway they can financially become a part of it.
    I would hound my grandma for that $2.50 car, she taught me that if you want and don't have the dough, ya gotta get creative financing=this equaled a paper route that allowed me to get other things as well.
    Materials are materials, "Steel is real, Glass is class and Wood has withstood".
    I have some of each and each suits their need for me being able to enjoy what I like.
    Coincidently-@ that same market used to sit a Indy car that ran in 55 that me and many other young up and coming hot rodders use to play in.
    It was the owners, He was Ray Crawford.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  22. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    I'm not gonna lie...being a history buff, I'd love to have a steel car sitting in my garage.
    But when I'm out for a run, I couldn't care less.

    The body is well wooded out and even with two opening doors its always been stiff and solid...even more so now with the additional steel reinforcements I've added to hold us in the car in a mild sideward impact and to securely mount the lap belts.
    On surface streets or the highway its like a slot car and goes exactly where you point it with absolutely no drama.

    I'm sure a good part of that solid, responsive feel comes from my seating position...much like Moonkist in that my butt is basicly on the floor with a laid back position and an upward angled forward seatbase to keep my thighs comfortable and feet aimed at the pedals.
    I'm just barely looking over a 9" windshield.
    When I go with a top the glass will be raised to 12" and visibility shouldn't be an issue...tested first of course to be sure. ;)

    I really wish it was more Hamb friendly than it is...and I'm always making changes and slowly working towards that end...but I really can't complain.
     
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  23. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Yup, seating position is absolutely key in these cars!
     
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  24. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Without question.;)
     
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  25. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    There is no question that Norm's T set the standard for generations of T buckets that came after it, and started the whole thing rolling. All of us graybeards remember sitting in front of the tv every Friday night, hoping to get a glimpse of "Kookies Car ". The next day in school it was all we could talk about, we had never seen anything like it before. When we had to sit through the whole show and they didn't feature the T that week, it was damn disappointing.

    Fast forward a lot of years, and my Sons and I were at Turkey Run in Daytona, and there was Norm Grabowski, selling his wares. We got to talk with the man who we thought of as a God, and found him to be a wonderful, funny, down to earth human being. We will never forget that moment and are so happy we got to actually spend time with him. His passing hit us deeply.

    My Son Don loved Norms bucket, and swore some day to build one, which he did about 8 years ago. Not a clone of Norms, but a respectful nod to the car that started it all, and to the man who had the vision to create it.

    [​IMG]

    Don
     
  26. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Well said, Don. My love came in the form of a purple, heavily chromed T Bucket poised next to an old lady in an ad for "Mothers" car wax, circa 1972, but I was from a different generation.

    Side note, I'd REALLY like someone to find that ad and post it. Gawd knows I've searched forever with no luck.
     
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  27. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,699

    Koz
    Member

    Don, a car that should be mentioned here is you black bucket. Very innovative and set really nice. I've seen pics with a girl in it but never with a driver. Love to see a pic of how you fit in the car. I remember it had a really low windshield so you had to be down there.
     
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  28. Blade58
    Joined: Mar 5, 2012
    Posts: 363

    Blade58
    Member
    from apopka ,Fl

    Does the original "T" body have more leg room then the "Glass" body ? some I have seen driver looks comfortable others I seen knees are almost up above the waist
     
  29. Yes indeed. Norm was a helluva guy. And as you say, Kookie's Car was the high point in any episode of "77 Sunset Strip" for lots of us. I didn't learn of the car's earlier incarnation until recently. I like the first version better, now that I know about it. But as was mentioned, it needed a makeover to make it "pop" on TV. Obviously that worked really well. ;)
     
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  30. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    Thanks, Koz. It looked better with the girl in it. :D Here is a picture of my Son Dan and I leaving Garlits place after one Billetproof (in the rain). It was a fun little car and I enjoyed it while I owned it.

    Don
    [​IMG]
     

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