The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Salty, Dec 27, 2008.
Just read through the build, glad everything worked out and looks like your heading towards the home stretch, great work keep at it!
Been traveling, work, life etc.....in Dallas right now with one more flight till I hit the garage for three weeks of un interrupted garage time (mixed with work of course) that said, stay tuned....there will be an update very very soon....possibly tonight when I get home....but maybe tomorrow.....
alright, I've been a bit remiss at providing updates for the project, I HAVE been working on it, quite a bit actually but have been even more laxidazical about photographing things....time wise I've been eaten up with the balance of work, family and getting a good amount of work done on the truck....I'm sure you all can relate.
That said, I Finally have the bed ready to block sand and will not be doing any more fab work to it. Though you cannot see it I shot sound deadener on the underside of the bead and then topcoated it with black... which involved a whole lot more than just that....grinding, smothing, epoxy primer, metal banging etc.....
As a "oh by the way" I also fabricated and reversed the bodyline on the bed to resemble more closly the beltline of the cab....I really should have taken pictures of that as A) it was really hard, and B) I'm wiked proud of it and it looks awesome.
Moving to what you can see I finished all the of the metal work in the bed and then got it into primer.....there is alot more work that went on there but non-the-less you can see the finished product.
Then I started to fine tune the doors and set the gaps....the first order of business was to square up the cab opening and smooth the inner door jamb which you can see here, (about 16 hours for the passenger side, I havent even started the drivers side.) This involved a porta power to open up a few spots that shrunk/moved when the truck was welded after being sectioned; a little slice and dice and re-welding for body lines that needed to be brought out (or conversly sucked in) to true things up; some metal rod to fill in the hammered shit rain gutters and a whole lot more welding, banging and cussing....then a skim of filler and primer.
Then the task comes to fine tune the door to the cab....I just started that as you can see and haven't gotten a whole lot done.
On the top part of the the door (nearest the B pillar and the top window) I had to take a bit of the door out....that of course opens up the door skin crimp so you have to take out twice as much as you want, then re-weld it and shape. the bottom of the door I had to add some steel.....too much to justify building it up with weld so I fabbed a chunk of steel up to the appropriate curvature and welded that in though I still have not finished it off as of yet....I still have about 8 hours of work on the passenger door to get it finished off then will move to the drivers door.
Writing it out in words it does not seem like I got much accomplished, however as the guy doing it I can tell you there was alot more to it than I am articulate in the written word.
Looking good. I know first hand (unfortunately) how much work it is to sand the inside of a truck box. What a PITA.
yup.....my hands were covered in blisters.....lots and lots of nooks and crannys, transitions and other stuff going on.....
In addition to the fact that with the exception of the minor fab work in getting the gaps straightened out in the doors all of the heavy fab work is completed on the truck.....everything else thats left is all tweeking and tuning fine detail work, that takes a ton of time.....
that and I'm kinda OCD about proportions and details....I'm super stoked as to where the project is right now, however I'll be even more stoked once I fire it for the first time scince the tear down and rebuild.
Hi Salty.Lookin` good.Bed cover is sweetttttttttttt.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
I posted this as a seperate thread in the Tech Week class BUT it's a build thread update so here is is.
Now mind you this is a fairly simple tech, but it affects EVERYONE that has a old hunk of crap that probably shouldn’t have been resurrected but being the glutton for punishments that we are.....we do it anyway.
Now back tracking a little bit, our old iron that we love so much was never meant to last 64 years (In my case as it's a 49 Chevy AD that I'll be working on but this is applicable to all.)
Knowing that the designers of our old stuff never thought in a million years that their equipment they cranked out would be around never thought to make "an old farm truck" fit well from the factory. Let's face it, even the higher end models didnt always fit good; then you take a "old farm truck" and they were happy if the doors shut and latched let alone fit well.
Add into all of that that I'm a bit retentive and want a more streamline fit and finish than was originally produced not even taking into account of the years of abuse this old farm truck had to take.
The example that we will be looking at today is my 49 Chevy AD. It's classified as a full custom, chopped, sectioned, smoothed etc. Quite honestly the doors fit like crap...they shut and latched but that's it. my door gaps ranged from 3/8" to a 1/4". my goal is a tight 1/8". The cab has been deeply reworked already with the section in addition to the fact that these cabs are small and with all the extra steel in it I'm not worried about it flexing. If your going to be doing this on a fullsized car that's going to flex you may want to open up your gaps a tad.
We'll be working on the drivers door today as the passenger door is already done. (we'll get back to that as the driver's door isnt finished but we'll get the story out together to you can see it from start to finish).
Here's what we started with. Bolt your door into the hinges, get it where you want it and mark it, you’re going to be taking the door off and on so make it easy on ya.
As you can see the gaps are all over the map, some are wide, some are tight and some don’t even match up to the body line.
Once you have the door in the general vicinity that you want look at what the car/truck is telling you. Take your magic marker out and mark out the entire door where it needs material and where it doesn’t. as seen below. It ain’t rocket science….I use T-bar marks everything away from the tail on the T needs filler and at the top of the T does not.
NOW AS A SIDEBAR: Most of my issues are with gaps that are too wide not gaps that are too tight. And that’s what you’ll be seeing. BUT in a gap too tight situation you’re just going to take twice the material out of the door than you originally need. Now I’m sure most know this, but for those that don’t the reason for this is when you grind the edge of the door you’ll end up grinding away the crimped edge that holds the door skin on. You gotta fix that right? Which means that you have to re-clamp the inner flange that you ground off back to the door frame and the skin and weld it all back together then smooth it. That’s where the take out twice the material comes in, that leaves you enough weld on the edge of the door to bond everything back together and still get your gap right.
Back to the story…after your done marking clean your metal stock as well as the door itself. I’m using 3/16” cold rolled steel as my gap filler and I’ll tell you why. 3/16” is actually too wide for the door skin….BUT it’s the perfect height. And there is a way around the thickness as I will show ya. Back tracking just a tad. Don’t get hell bent to leather and weld up the entire door all at once. I always start on the B pillar and move my way back. Once I get the B pillar tuned in I’ll move to the top of the window. Once I get the window frame tuned in I move to the A pillar (which usually needs the least amount of work.)
I always weld up the inside of the door first. Due to the reverse curves on the inside of the door it’s harder to work with so I flush weld the inside then knock em down before I start working on the front. The curvature of the door edge and the 3/16” cold roll make the most perfect chamfer ever to fill with weld. Seeing as your working with a piece of straight cold rolled I start at the bottom of the door and work to the top. I use the heat from the welding process to curve the cold rolled into position as I go as seen here.
As always get good penetration and here is a view from the opposite side as you’re welding the inside.
Just take it slow and before you know it you’ll have the B pillar done and this is what it will look like.
Now hopping back to how the 3/16” cold rolled is too wide. When you flip the door you’ll see the discrepancy.
Take ye old flap disk and knock it down….easy peasy. This one though I should note that I drag a thin cutting wheel down the joint to give you that chamfer back that was naturally there on the inside of the door.
Again, work around welding the outside of the door…
Maxed out the photo load for this post, continued below.
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Then knock the weld down and dress it up.
At this point youll want to chuck the door back in place in check out how things are workin for you. In this case its a little tight and needs to get shaved down some but it fits.
This is a better photo showing you how jacked up the gaps are. (which drives me nuts) course after the B pillar side we (should) move to the top of the door.
Backtracking just once more, while we are fitting things up lets look at the below photo.
That said youve seen the flow of things and now Ill show you the semi-finished product on the Passenger side. (It still needs the perfection go over but its tuned in enough to get the total picture)
As you will see in the above photo (BTW door is just sitting in the frame in this picture
I hadda walk out to the garage and make sure my beltline wasnt really that jacked up) even with the door not adjusted right (my bad) the gaps are night and day difference. As you can also see I did NOT add any material on the A pillar side of the door other than at the very top and the very bottom. The drivers side is the same
.it does not need anything remarkable in the A pillar side.
In the below photo
..To the very trained eye you possibly be able tell some material is added but once you get it smoothed and painted it should be invisible.
Finally, this is my super duper secret squirrel gap checker
.IE the thin paint stir stick
.who needs a caliper when you got something this good
.funny part is, Ron Covell has been gaping cars with a stir stick for years.
Backtracking just once more, while we are fitting things up lets look at the below photo.
Youll see (though I neglected to get a finished photo of this) I used the old bodymans trick of springing the door open on the bottom just a tad to match up with the cab body line. Just a well placed chunk of wood and some ass will bring stuff like that into place.
Bottom line, when you get into detail oriented work it takes time
.lots of time.
Money wise I have 20 bucks in this project, that includes the steel and consumables.
Time wise I have about 8 hours in the passenger door (and its not quite done, I prob have another two or three hours in it to get it absolutely perfect) and about 3 hours in on the drivers door. But its the little things that make the viewer step back and wonder what is different
. in my eyes thats just as much of an impact IF NOT MORE than a major modification.
I know its a simpleton Tech
.but one that I was doing at the time. Hope someone can use it. By no means do I claim to be an expert.....this is just stuff that has worked for me in the past and hope to plug some ideas in someones head or let then get a starting point for the vision in their head.
And I didnt want to put this in the tech thread portion BUT I just hadda birthday (don't ask) and my lovely wife has been paying attention....You see I've been using my old rusty trusty (holey) gloves....welp occassionally I would catch the inside of the glove on fire which would lead to interesting antics in the garage....funny to watch, not so fun to experience. See though I have this aversion to breaking a new set of gloves in....I hate it BUT Mrs. Salty bought me some pimp assed pre-broken in Hobart gloves that are as supple as....well insert your own adjective....I Love em!
She also musta heard me complainin about the fact that my old auto darkening helmet broke (beyond repair).....it was just plain wore out...7 or 8 years old and there was no saving it. SO She got me this super fly Hobart auto-darkening helmet, man this thing is not only comfy, but gives you a whole new perspective on things.....who knew your supposed to see what your doing (but still sheild your eyes) and be effective at your craft....I love this as well.....Thanks Hon!!! your so thoughtful!
And of course what would life be without the obligatory self portrait of a madman all hoped up on caffeen, hate, speed metal (but some Al Green) and welding fumes.
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Great instructional work, awesome. Keep up the great work!
great work man!
Knowing what some of you responders are building and the class that you all build, I really respect and appreciate your kudos towards me. I aint doin this for the recognition (to clarify) BUT the positive vibes from folks I either know personally (Metalman, Bonsey, dad) and folks I know through there cars on the HAMB (IE Farmer, James D, Etc)
It means alot to me.....I'm just a garage hack that like nicely fitting stuff....your comments keep the drive alive when it seems like your never gonna get done.....
Whelp, even though I didn't win the tech week it's still not all about the glory....so here's an update and closure for the gap issue....after much trial and error (read install, measure, mark and then uninstall and fit)in addition to the few hours on manual mode fine tuning it with a rip file then capping the edge with a fine file you have gaps that are actually worth a damn.....
Behold, what you will end up with after much toil....hey it's about the details right?
Now to finish the drivers side I guess......
Like I said, it's all about splitting differences and taking you time.....let the car/truck talk to you and tell you what it needs....
Those gaps look sweet. Keep it up, it's the little details that make the finished product.
Great work Salty, that passenger door looks so good!
I havent had time to do much to the truck BUT I have never seen the semi finished bed on the truck with the tonnoe cover on it....seeing as I'm getting ready to start the block sanding process (as soon as I finish gapping the other door) and I needed some garage space I figured I'd slap the bed and tonnoe cover on the truck and make it a bit easier to get around.
Bottom line....I love the hell out of it.....the lines between the cab and the bed are corrected with the filler peice I put in the bottom of the bed.
As the photos show there is a bit wider gap than normal as the bed is just sitting on the frame (unbolted) I've sense squared it up and bolted it downa dn the gap between the two is alot tighter but still elaves enough room for the flex space between the two body modules.
OH and a by product of all that work was that the bed gained some weight....that bed used to be wicked light.....now it's a bit hefty (which is fine with me as it was always too squirly back there anyway.)
here it is.....
You are right, it's all about the details. Maybe some people would notice them, others may not, but at least you know it's perfect. Love the lines on the truck. Well done. 5 stars from me.
Thanks Farmer.....To me, details are what makes or breaks a car/truck.....then when you get into custom territory it really is all obout the details (IMHO).....I really am pleased as punch as to how it's coming out so far.....
Thanks brother....I appreciate it
Well done. And 10 stars from me
Nice to see you are still plugging away at it, the bed looks great...do you have any fiiiiingerprints left after all the sanding ?!
Fingerprints are a thing of the past for the most part right now and will continue to be a vanishing commodity here in the future......
Though I have taken to just taping up all of my fingers at the get go to alleviate two hands worth of very painful blisters right up front....right now it's all the nooks and crannies that I'm working on (door jambs, inner door jambs etc) and they are tearing me up pretty good.....I'm looking forward to just block sanding with a long board (I know I'll change my tune when I get 40 or 50 hours in it and have 40 or 50 more to go)
Lemme tell you what....if I wasn't solid working class I think I would have to pay someone to do this for me (if I could afford it) which I cannot......soooo a sanding I will go! Run through the grits until I'm sick of it I suppose.....
wow! insane job
Wow-- you have really busted your butt on this truck----Funny how "simple" things seem to evolve. It sure turned out well and it'll only get better. BILL RINALDI
Ok, so I kinda dropped off the radar for a bit, holidays, work, the sick that's been running around...but slowly but surely have been chipping away at it.....as you well know I had to adjust the gaps on the driver door, I started by smoothing and blocking the cab nooks and crannies....it's highly fun and involves lotsa sandpaper, bloody fingers and blue air.
iPad is acting wonky with the photos....standby
Then I moved to the door.....I thought the driver door would be a lot simpler....as with anything on this truck I was sadly mistaken and where I thought it be straight forward as it was (seemingly) much better shape than the passenger door.....I was wrong, as I set the door up, every time I would set a gap and reset the door; everything would change and I would either have to add or delete metal from the edges.....this went on for too long till I finally I got it pretty close....smoothed everything out on the inside of the door frame.....it ain't perfect, BUT when I do all of my blocking the small inconsistencies will end up getting fixed by default....at this point I'm in it for about 24 hours just in the drivers door.
Now it's off to fitting and gaping the front clip to the hood, that should actually be pretty straight forward seeing as when I had to cut the hood up and section it I set the hood up gapped to the fenders with welded spacers...we will see what actually happens....
how on earth did I miss this build thread?!!!
Crikey, top job ya doing there. I read the roof was at 56" high, that still the case?
If I read right, sectioned 2 1/2" but I couldn't find how much chopped or channelled...
Can't wait to see more pics of this. Doing a sorta similar thing with my pickup too.
Look forward to more
Shoot this thread has been here for way too long....it needs to get finished...
I haven't had the truck off the dollies in some time but if I said it was 56" high, that's what it was when I dropped it off the dollies to get a visual....
Chop is 4.25" front 4" rear, 2.5" section and no channel. The beauty of these AD's is that they already come from the factory channeled so to speak the way the fenders dip below the frame and the running boards do as well....it's been a few years scince I measured it but I seem to remember that the running boards are 7" below the frame (edit....I just ran out there with a tape and measured it to verify I wasn't talking out my ass.....it's 6.5" from the bottom of the frame to the bottom of the running board mount) and that's stock.....that's one of the few things on the truck I haven't messed with.
I'll try not to be so laxidasical about photos....time is at a premium so when I get a chance to work on it I'm usually busting my ass to get stuff accomplished and the documentation part of it suffers....
Thanks for the interest...the first build thread I posted was 6 mo before I consolidated them (this thread) for continuity sake....when I tore it down I had set a goal at a 1 year turn around....I'm sitting at 2.5 years since that point.....yea I suck.
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