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History The NOVI V-8 what was it???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by loudbang, May 17, 2017.

  1. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,293

    loudbang
    Member

    This story started a couple months ago when I posted a photo of a dragster with this HUGE blower on it in the vintage shots thread.

    It started some discussion and Dean Lowe came up with "it looks like the blower from the Novi cars" well he was correct LOL.

    It rang a bell back in my memory because when I was a youngster if anyone asked what I wanted to do when I got older my answer would have been "Win the Indy 500" and I'm sure I knew it's history back in the day.

    So I started looking around and found this story I present to you THE NOVI V-8. Enjoy :)

    Few race cars in the history of the Indianapolis 500, if any, possess the mystique of the mighty Novi despite the fact that it never won a race. It never came close, to be honest about it, yet the Novi holds a beloved place in Indy racing lore.

    This is by no means a complete history, only an assortment of interesting facts about the fearsome Novi V8.

    The Novi story starts approximately here. For the 1941 Indy 500, businessman and racer Lew Welch (standing in the center in the photo below) entered this ungainly race car, which was in fact one of the 10 ill-fated 1935 Miller-Tucker Ford racers with redesigned sheet metal. The real news was under the hood: a scratch-built, highly advanced V8 racing engine. Equipped with a screaming centrifugal supercharger, the exotic 183 CID mill was said to be good for 450 hp at 8000 rpm—a good 50 percent more power than a standard Offy four-banger in those days.

    At this point the name Novi was not yet part of the enterprise. The entry was known as the Winfield Special after the engine’s co-creator, Bud Winfield, the tall man in the photo below. An Indy veteran, he was the younger brother of machine shop genius Ed Winfield, who no doubt lent his expertise to this project as well.

    Installed in an obsolete Miller-Ford front-wheel drive chassis that was originally designed for 160 hp, the Winfield V8 proved nearly impossible to control. Indy journeyman Ralph Hepburn, with miles of experience jockeying the old Miller front-drive racers back in the ’20s, was recruited to drive. With a wood block installed under the Winfield’s throttle pedal to make the beast more manageable, the crafty veteran qualified 10th at 120.653 mph and finished a quite respectable fourth in the race. The Novi legend was off and running.

    p1 1941-Winfield-Special.jpg

    As much as any single image, this photo below of the Winfield V8 in its original Miller-Ford chassis tells the Novi creation story. From left: Leo Goosen, the brilliant Miller/Offy draftsman and engineer who designed the new V8 to Winfield’s specifications; Fred Offenhauser, whose Los Angeles shop manufactured the engine’s components; and Bud Winfield, who served as midwife and chief mechanic for the project until he was tragically killed in a highway accident in 1950.

    Since the Winfield V8, soon to be known as the Novi, was originally designed for a front-drive installation, its packaging was rather novel. The gear drive for the double-overhead camshafts is located at the flywheel end of the engine—here, toward the front of the chassis. (Decades later, the Ilmor-Chevy Indy engine employed a rear cam drive.) Meanwhile, the centrifugal supercharger is mounted behind the engine, and the three Winfield racing carbs are installed on the driver’s side of the firewall, protected from engine heat and track grime. Winfield’s hand is resting on the giant air-to-air intercooler on top of the engine, which fed the fresh intake charge from the supercharger to the eight cylinders.

    If you look close enough you can just make out the huge blower where the firewall is between the carbs on the left and the engine on the right.

    p2 1941-Winfield-Goosen-Offenhauser.jpg


    Following the standard racing practice of the day, from Offy to Bugatti, the (one of the more unusual aspects of the engine) Novi’s cylinder block and head were cast in one unit to avoid the need for a head gasket.

    As a V8, naturally, the engine employed a pair of iron four-cylinder block/head assemblies, one for each bank, which bolted to the aluminum crankcase.

    The combustion chambers were of classic hemispherical configuration with two valves per cylinder splayed at 84 degrees. Note the staggered cylinder bore spacing, which allowed the intake manifold plumbing for the supercharger and intercooler to pass up through the middle of the engine between the cylinder pairs.

    Like the Ford flathead V8, the engine employed only three main bearings, but following Peugeot/Miller practice, the main caps were large-diameter, 360-degree bronze bulkheads that bolted into a barrel-type crankcase. The single-plane crankshaft was machined from a 4130 steel billet, while the bore and stroke were 3.185 inches by 2.84 inches, respectively. The remarkably oversquare dimensions yielded a a displacement of 181 cubic inches, just under the 183 CID (3.0 liters) capacity limit for supercharged engines at the time.

    The block and head

    p3 NOVI-CYL-BLOCK-AND-HEAD.jpg


    This was the supercharger that got me wondering which led to this thread.

    Here’s a key element in the Novi mystique: the big 10-inch centrifugal supercharger. Turning at 5.35 times engine speed through a torsion shaft and a series of straight-cut drive gears, the blower was effectively a siren, piercing the air with a 43,000-rpm Doppler scream that could be heard anywhere around the 2.5-mile Speedway.

    Fans who experienced the Novi remember the unique sound as much as the sights. But while the blower was loud, it surely wasn’t very efficient, as the tip speed of the plate-sized impeller exceeded 1,800 feet per second.

    Back in those days not too much dyno testing or computer models to try things first just use what you have and try it on the track.
    Can't find any info on WHY they used this supercharger like they had one on hand, or they saw them used on WWII planes, or the shape was what they knew would fit. But it was a bad choice, but the reason this engine will be remembered.


    p4 NOVI-CENTRIFUGAL-BLOWER.jpg


    With World War II ended and competition resumed at Indianapolis, Welch and crew returned in 1946 with a new chassis to house their mighty supercharged V8 and a new name: Novi, after Welch’s hometown in Southeast Michigan (and his company of the same name). The Novi front-wheel-drive chassis, designed by Goosen and constructed by Frank Kurtis of Glendale, California, was a runner right out of the box.

    Though not ready for pole day, the Novi set a qualifying record of 133.944 mph, and on race day Hepburn carved through the field from 19th place and led 44 laps before mechanical failures ended their race on lap 122. Welch (in hunting cap below, next to big Bud Winfield in the fedora) was so thrilled he ordered a second Kurtis Novi chassis for 1947.

    It was in these years that the Novis began to develop their reputation: fast but jinxed. In any given year they were the quickest cars on the track, and the loudest as well. But they were fragile and temperamental and seldom finished.

    The best final result for a Novi in the Indy 500 was fourth in 1947 with Herb Ardinger aboard. And with their brutish power and tricky handling, the Novis soon became known as widow makers. Hepburn lost his life in a practice accident in 1948, while Chet Miller was killed in an oddly similar crash in 1953, and Duke Nalon received serious burns in a 1949 smashup. In those days, to be a Novi fan—and Novi fans were many—meant spending your time at the Speedway on the edge of your seat. With your fingers crossed.

    p5 1946-Novi-Ralph-Hepburn-and-crew.jpg

    With their front-drive chassis growing increasingly obsolete in the early ’50s as the roadster era took over the Speedway, the Novis failed to qualify in 1954 and 1955. For 1956, Welch commissioned two roadster-style, rear-drive chassis from Frank Kurtis. Carrying the Kurtis model designation 500F, these cars were noted for their flamboyant tail fins, which grew taller in successive years.

    p6 1956-Novi-Kurtis-Paul-Russo-race-photo.jpg

    This construction photo shows how the Novi V8 was turned around to fit a rear-wheel drive layout: the cam drive and distributor are now at the rear and the supercharger is at the front, fed by a single Bendix aircraft-type carburetor. The big intercooler atop the engine had been ditched a few years earlier to reduce weight. While the lighter and more modern rear-drive Kurtis chassis restored the Novi to the front of the field for several more years, the poor reliability and lousy racing luck continued. In 1959 and 1960, the Novis failed to make the race.

    p7 1956-Novi-Chassis.jpg

    By 1961, Welch had gotten his bellyful of the Novis, and he sold the entire operation to Andy Granatelli, veteran Indy team owner and master STP salesman. In Indy lore, Granatelli paid $10,000 for everything, including the boxes of worn and broken pieces.

    With the help of his brothers, world-class racing wrenches Vince and Joe Granatelli, Mr. STP launched an extensive dyno program for the Novi V8, now 20 years old. With revised camshafts and followers, modernized intake and exhaust porting, and an up-to-date blower (based on the Granatellis’ supercharger expertise as owners of Paxton Products), the Novi now produced a reported 742 hp at 8,200 rpm. However, the vastly improved performance came at a cost: With a smaller, more efficient blower impeller, the engine’s sound was noticeably more docile.

    For 1962, Granatelli also ordered two more new Kurtis chassis. Designated model 500K, they were among the last Indy cars produced by Frank Kurtis, and at 1,740 lbs., the new piece was the lightest Novi ever. In 1963, Bobby Unser (below) qualified sixth at 149+ mph but crashed out of the race on Lap 2. Notable Novi drivers of the Granatelli era included Unser, Art Malone, and Jim Hurtubise.

    p8 1963-Novi-Bobby-Unser.jpg

    The Novi’s swan song was the Ferguson 104 project of 1964-1966. To cope with the supercharged V8’s excessive power, Granatelli commissioned Ferguson Research in Britain to build a chassis incorporating its advanced four-wheel drive system. Unser qualified fifth fastest in the Novi-Ferguson in 1964 at 154 mph and change, but was caught up in the horrible MacDonald/Sachs crash on the second lap and was scored 32nd.

    Although the four-wheel drive system improved traction off the corners, it also introduced a significant weight penalty: all up, the car scaled at over 2,400 lbs. A second, lightweight chassis was constructed, but it was damaged in a practice crash by Unser and parked. In 1966, the car was crashed in practice again with a young Greg Weld at the wheel and failed to qualify for the race. And with that, the Novi’s 25-year run at Indy was over.

    (Interesting that it has Studebaker livery)

    p9 1964-Novi-Bobby-Unser-9.jpg


    So there it is a short history of a "Mystery engine" of it's day and will be remembered more for it's unique SOUND, from the huge blower that got this story started. not it's performance :rolleyes:

    from here: https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/secrets-of-the-novi-v8/#more-51849
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,293

    loudbang
    Member

    While contemplating the conundrum of why this supercharger it hit me in this sentence "This construction photo shows how the Novi V8 was turned around to fit a rear-wheel drive layout: the cam drive and distributor are now at the rear and the supercharger is at the front, fed by a single Bendix aircraft-type carburetor."

    It looks like someone had some connection to aircraft industry and went back to it to get a carb that worked with this supercharger.
     
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  3. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,277

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    Great story! All this engineering and construction was done before computers, computer driven lathes and milling machines. What talent!
     
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  4. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    X2

    Ray
     
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  5. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,349

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    My dad was a Novi fan, but I think it was more of a "rooting for the underdog" thing than anything else like the technology, a particular team or driver. I remember being able to distinguish it's unique sound (more like the cars they run now) when we listened to the 500 on the radio. My old man was in the Navy, and since the family was from the Indy area we listened to the race no matter where we were stationed on the Armed Forces Network. Gary

    PS I'd guess the link with Studebaker on some of the Indy cars had a lot to do with Andy's supercharger work and some of the special Studebakers / Avantis.
     
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  6. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,070

    wicarnut
    Member

    My Dad and I back then went to Indy, qualify and race several times and the sound of the NOVI was KOOL, Wow ! What a sound ! Always my pick. Being a Mature man now, (OF) sometimes I think about all the Kool things I got to see/hear and DO. I was and am a very lucky man !
     
  7. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
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  8. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,746

    The37Kid
    Member

    DSCF6625.JPG Shot I took last January when it was in the Velocity event in LA same weekend as the GNRS. Bob
     
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  9. "Mr STP".....Andy's story had a great....heart breaking....chapter or two on his Novi quest....much like taking the stock Studebaker's out to Bonneville in their last years....he was a champion of what some would call the down and outs.

    Thanks for breaking it down and the pictures - was a good read !
     
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  10. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,032

    Speedwrench
    Member

    I think that Studebaker owned STP at that time, which would explain the signage on the car.
     
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  11. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,746

    The37Kid
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    It is interesting to know how the town of NOVI got its name. Bob
     
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  12. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    the supercharger looks like a small version of the ones I work on on EMD Primemovers , I Always liked the looks of the 1950-60s Novis .
     
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  13. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,487

    deucemac
    Member

    My first year at Indy was 1958. We went down to the track for pole day. My dad had gone for several years prior to that time and came home with programs and wonderful stories that captivated a young boy. Finally I got my chance at all of 10 years old. I can remember sitting at the exit of turn 4 and watching all the Offys practice and qualify. Suddenly I heard this unreal scream and saw red and blue shark finned cars coming off the back stretch around 3 then the short chute into 4 and then right in front of me at full scream went the 2 Novis. All these tears later I can close my eyes and see, hear, and feel that marvelous scream off the Banchees just as though I was 10 again! A sight and sound I shall treasure for the rest of my life. I feel a little sad that others will never have that pleasure. Tom Malloy had a clone built of one of those cars a few years ago and now has enough Novi parts to assemble a correct engine for it. I hope I'm around when he finishes it so I can once again experience " A Novi"!
     
  14. elba
    Joined: Feb 9, 2013
    Posts: 628

    elba
    Member

    My Father and I went to the 1965 5oo . My uncle gave us the tickets for my high school graduation present. I remember the NOVI sound ! It was very different .
     
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  15. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Why a centrifugal supercharger? Probably because of Harry. They already had over 20 years of development into that design (started with the Miller 122). Also it has significant efficiencies in size and weight over a the other period super charger designs. Indy didn't require the on/off throttle work that a European road race engine required.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  16. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,481

    joel
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    I worked in the engineering lab, aircraft side, at Bendix for a while. I was a tech in environmental testing and worked a few times for an engineer named Elmer Haase. He developed and held patents on a pneumatic servo fuel injection system referred to as the RS. This system was used on many reciprocating (piston) light aircraft engines and Elmer was in Indy for most of May ( '76 to '80 ) because an RS7 system was being used on many of the engines (Ford/Foyt V8) There used to be examples in the museum at Indy; I haven't been there for probably 40 years. I wouldn't doubt there was a strong connection between Bendix Fuel systems for aircraft and Indy. I remember , if you worked for Elmer, you did what he said when he said it and you didn't question it. Smart man.
     
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  17. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
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  18. H380
    Joined: Sep 20, 2015
    Posts: 484

    H380
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Look at a B17 or B24 turbo supercharger. Then take off the turbo/exhaust part. This is a B24.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,166

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    If I remember correctly, Bendix sold their automotive fuel injection technology to Bosch who first began using it in production with the type 3 Volkswagens in 1968. Since then, most all of the automotive injection technology world wide has stemmed from this, most licensed by Bosch I believe.
     
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  20. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,481

    joel
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    I can't speak to that, but in '78 or '79 I made /setup a run stand for a Pinto 4 cyl. with an auto trans for a load device ( output shaft locked so the converter was the load). I think the injector was an RS3 or4 and a fabbed manifold. The fuel was fed to each cylinder through a "demand" nozzle which was 100% mechanical; in fact, there wasn't a wire to anything except the electric fuel pump. At first, we had trouble with high CO2 and CO during transients at different rpm and in different cylinders. Elmer added and tweaked baffles until they balanced out. Very low CO2 & CO levels at steady speed and less than half of carb levels.
    I also ran the system on a Mercury outboard. sitting in a big water tank. One of the test required cycling the throttle from idle to wide open and back as fast as I could physically. The engine never spit coughed or hesitated during any of the runs. I don't know how many cycles I did but each time I did it until my fore arm tightened up and I let go of the throttle lever.
    I've often wondered if cars would have so much electronic crap or if maintenance would be so expensive if that system would have been adopted.
     
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  21. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 583

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    town of Novi=stop #6
     
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  22. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,543

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Not mentioned here, but I do believe the NOVI mill had a flat crank, giving it a real neat wail, & I've read that it echoed back n forth around the INDY track. Too bad the innovative years, n rules, are gone.
    Marcus...
     
  23. 29AVEE8.......thanks for the post with the sound......
     
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  24. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,847

    butch27
    Member

    Where does Novi, Michigan fit into to this story?
     
  25. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,409

    Fordors
    Member

    Lew Welch was a resident of Novi, MI where he manufactured parts for Ford Motor Co. and he was also a factory authorized engine rebuilder for Ford with a West coast plant. Lew approached Fred Offenhauser to have him build a V8 and initially with the involvement of Bud Winfield it was known as the Winfield V8. Lew had deep ties to Ford and that gave him access to one of the 1935 FWD Ford/Miller chassis.
    Though the engine was designed and built by Offenhauser/Goosen/Winfield it's specifications were called out by Welch- bore and stroke, the three main bearing bottom end, rod bearing size, valves and cam timing and the carburetion.
    Winfield was Welch's Indy mechanic and Bud developed and tuned the engine which was first called the Winfield V8, but later Welch renamed the car and engine the Novi Special to honor his hometown.
     
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  26. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Lew Welch whom I suppose you could label as the patron of the Novi named the engine after his hometown of Novi Michigan. Welch had sponsored racecars at Indy dating back to the mid 30s I believe and he had Bud Winfield help him with some race car issues that led to the two getting together on the Novi project. The engine ended up being a collaboration of Welch, Winfield, Goosen and Offenhauser (there may have been 220px-Novi_Special_Water_Tower.JPG others behind the scenes).

    There have been claims that Novi was the 6th coach stop etc etc but I am not sure that such is really true. I have read it is more lore than truth but have not independently researched it. The engine though is probably the most legendary engine to have not won a race at Indy.

    Here is a picture of the water tower that is still standing on the east side of Novi road just south of Grand River avenue. I always look for the water tower whenever I pass it-habit I guess.

    Fordors beat me to it, as we seemed to have posted at the same time.
     
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  27. Novi used to have a street south of Grand River east of Novi Road called Sixth Gate, abandoned and removed with the "new" downtown. jimdillon is correct that nobody has really nailed down the origin of the name. In the Serbian language Novi means new, but no definitive connection has been made to that as an origin, the sixth toll gate on the Grand River Plank Road or any of the other tales. A mystery probably never to be solved.
     
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  28. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Glad to share.
     
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  29. Phillips
    Joined: Oct 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,504

    Phillips
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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