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Hot Rods The Meaning of Craftsmanship in Hot Rodding

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by JimKing, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. JimKing
    Joined: Oct 14, 2021
    Posts: 19

    JimKing

    I think about craftsmanship a lot, and seeing as about (at least) 75% of you here are better craftsmen than me, I really wanted to hear some thoughts...

    I had a birthday a couple of weeks back and I was trying to think of some resolutions for a new year of being alive; I’ve been really wanting to step up my building lately and I’ve made some steps towards where I want to be and got better at some techniques I want to be good at, and I decided a new year is a good time for a new start and a new attitude. Really push myself to make each part and build not just as good as I can do it, but as well as it can be done. Consider the best possible way to do a thing, not just the best way I already know. I don’t expect to always (or even often) hit that theoretical perfect score, but I like the idea of not taking the easy road so much as the BEST road.

    I think any hobby will have a natural curve of improvement and learning, but I feel like I’d like to try to make the step to thinking more like a ‘craftsman’ - someone who’s really at the top of their skill set and excels at what they do. I think a real craftsman might well argue that you never stop improving and never stop being dissatisfied with your work to a degree, but I really like the idea that by pushing and trying harder than you normally might, and constantly finding ways to do the same thing better than before then you’ll end up on a a rewarding lifelong journey.

    I’ve been trying to find things to watch and read to learn more about that craftsman mentality and find some ideas and inspiration for myself - and I’d really welcome any suggestions from anyone here.

    So, I guess the question is, do other people here feel like they’re trying to approach their work from a similar viewpoint? Wanting to really strive to hit ‘perfection’ and finding a lot of enjoyment from doing that? I’d be really interested to hear other people’s viewpoints if you’re on a journey of knowing you might spend a lifetime trying to get better and better at this and always looking for the best way to do something, not just the best way you know right now. Lets here some thoughts on craftsmanship!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    I find I approach it from a different viewpoint. I tend to work towards a level of craftsmanship that's appropriate for what I'm working on. Since I don't work on first class cars (Duesenberg, etc), but mostly on old Chevys and such, they don't need to be anywhere near perfect. And they look a bit out of place if things are too nice. When building a traditional car (which is what the HAMB is all about, eh?) modern levels of perfection in fabrication, paint, etc seem out of place to me.

    But if you're into that, go for it! It's a great way to spend a lot of time, doing something you love.
     
  3. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,494

    KJSR
    Member
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    The more I learn the longer stuff takes to complete....the longer stuff takes to complete the less time I have to enjoy it. I need to get back to doing things quickly/good enough and being able to enjoy them.
     
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  4. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    There is a happy medium there somewhere but I don't have time to figure it out.:D
     

  5. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    You nailed my thinking exactly for everything I do. It is the correct way to go through life. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. Mike Lawless
    Joined: Sep 20, 2021
    Posts: 513

    Mike Lawless

    A good craftsman, in my mind, is not afraid of failure, or from discarding a procedure or method that doesn't provide the desired result. Just don't be afraid to start over. It takes practice to become good at a learned skill, which craftsmanship really is. No one is born knowing how to do these things.
    I've learned far more from the things I've built that didn't work out than those that did work the first time. The longer I do a thing, the more times it does come out right the first time. Do your research, develop a plan, and then work the plan. Sometimes deviations will be needed. And then sometimes, it all goes according to plan.
    And, there will always be those who will be critical. Some criticism will be constructive and can be learned from. Some criticism will come from those who sit idly by on the sidelines who have never engaged in the game.
     
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  7. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 7,348

    stanlow69
    Member Emeritus

    Not sure what you are after. Not sure your skill level. You first learn how things work by fixing what`s bad. Get it operational. You then make modifications to suit your build style. Then make it look pretty. The skill level comes with age. Or the amount of time you are prepared to spend on each individual part, or aspect of the part of the build you are trying to make perfect.
     
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  8. Tow Truck Tom
    Joined: Jul 3, 2018
    Posts: 1,879

    Tow Truck Tom
    Member
    from Clayton DE

    Tru dat!
     
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  9. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,903

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rabit hole of disatisfaction and unhappiness? I dunno. I shoot for the best I can with what I have / can do, but could easily get dissoulusioned if I tried to achieve what those kids with computers and umpteen axis machines can achieve. If its not fun then its not fun!

    Chris
     
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  10. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Perfection is in the eyes of the beholden. My craftsmanship is not at the level of some others and I do what I can with what I have. I'm not new to this hobby. I won't spend money for stuff that I might only use one time for a project and this keeps my skills at my level.
    I think that everyone strives for the perfect craftsmanship or what they might think is the perfect craftsmanship. Is there always room for improvement? Yes, there is. Improve your skills. "Be All That You Can Be".
    There were times I would build something but it ended up as an ashtray.
    Be competitive if you want. Strive to be better than the guy standing next to you.
    I dig watching people work using their skills set. It's amazing at what I see others do. I can weld, but...
    I can paint a car, but...
    I know that I can mow my lawn in straight lines with my Craftsman mower. No buts about it.
    Anybody can be a craftsman, but person who practices and practices and isn't afraid of failure is a true craftsman. No matter your skill level.
     
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  11. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Basic's,start out with a plan,but good research is time well used. There are carftman that just makethings look nice,then real craftman that do it with right engineering an nice looks. Too many just bolt it together,not really knowing it should be another way,after all,they saw it in a photo,so it must be OK=no,often the photo they copyed was of some lazy way of doing something,but bearly works. RESEARCH,learn,then do.
     
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  12. mohr hp
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 929

    mohr hp
    Member
    from Georgia

    Little John Buttera wrote a few articles for Hot rod in the early eighties about this stuff. He talked about working to the outer limits of your skills and doing your best, not someone else's best. He mentioned having barrels full of foul ups, which tells me that even the Masters screw up. The difference is, most guys will compromise and use the foul up or try to massage it into "good enough", whereas John would suck it up and start over. If you ever saw any of his stuff, it's hard to deny that he was a Master at this craft.
     
  13. Stooge
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 504

    Stooge
    Member

    Im happy with myself if i can say that i tried to do the best job i could at the time i was making/ working on whatever it is. Sometimes that means trying something multiple times to get it right, getting some tool or piece of material i didnt have previously, or spending a yr tinkering with a section to get it to where im happy with it. Theres certainly things i did a decade ago, that might not be up to my current work, but im still proud of it because thats where i was at the time. I think i approach things a little different now though, where 'its just sheet metal' and im more comfortable starting something over, instead of chasing my ass on it, taking my time and not trying to get something done in a weekend, and not trying to take a short cut to get out of doing something because its going to be a long monotonous process. Making/ building stuff is the biggest part of the hobby for me though, but i definitely get keeping things simple and doing just what needs to be done to get out and enjoy it if the car is complete enough
     
  14. JimKing
    Joined: Oct 14, 2021
    Posts: 19

    JimKing

    I would really like to find these articles - sounds like exactly the kind of reading my brain would enjoy. Thanks for the heads up!
     
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  15. Jethro
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,908

    Jethro
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I try to do my best within my skill level and budget. I have improved in some areas and I guess I peaked in others. There are definitely some on here who are bona fide "craftsmen" and I admire them. For some guys perfection comes easily , I strive to do better but have to say that perfection for me is a 75 yard field goal , into the wind. Someone on here years ago said "to seek perfection is to never finish"
    I know it can be done but you gotta decide if you want to drive it sometime or work on it forever.
     
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  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Along with knowledge I'd say patience has as much to do with the level of craftsmanship that any of us can turn out. True, higher skilled people can get it done faster but the majority of time It is the extra minutes or hours of taking the time to do the finish work that counts.
    I went out and took photos of a truck for a guy on another board a few years ago and the truck had fresh original color paint on it and you could see on the bed side where they had filled the holes for a trim strip and hit the spots with some primer and the DA sander but didn't take the time to block it out with a long board. That not having the patience to finish it out took the truck from real nice cruiser to daily driver work rig. The guy bought it for his dad and his dad was pretty happy with it but three or four hours would made it several times nicer.

    I remember back in 1973 when I did the body work on my 48 before a friend painted it for me. I didn't have any power tools for body work and only had one Craftsman body hammer and one or two dollies. Luckily, I had pretty straight sheet metal to work with at the time. I spent untold hours with a sanding block and a long board getting the truck right and body work wise that is the best it has ever been. Sand, prime, sand prime and repeat. One panel at a time and drive it to work every day. After I chopped it and went to paint it red I didn't have the patience that I had before even though I had access to far more tools and actually had the time to do it right. I found flaws in it not long after I had it back together and was never really happy with it.
     
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  17. mohr hp
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 929

    mohr hp
    Member
    from Georgia

    Let me do some digging when I get home, so I can at least give you the year/months. It all was with Baskerville while John built his silver '29 A.
     
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  18. Mike Lawless
    Joined: Sep 20, 2021
    Posts: 513

    Mike Lawless

    He definitely knew his stuff. It takes a lot of guts to toss something you've spent hours and hours on, into the bin. I think that's the difference in a lot of people.
     
  19. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 5,113

    choptop40
    Member

    avoid alcohol and pain killers when around anything with power , that spins , rolls , fuses , cuts , bends , hoists etc.........just sayin..
     
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  20. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    I would've said these are a requirement when working on old shit.:D
     
  21. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,396

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I never considered myself a craftsman rather just a builder. When we built our new home and shop and had to clean out the storage shed on the farm I was amazed at how much stuff I had screwed up and threw into the scrape pile because it didn't work.
     
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  22. Reidy
    Joined: May 13, 2016
    Posts: 221

    Reidy
    Member

    My definition is a true craftsman can make an item to a very high standard, but this often comes at a cost of time, cost for quality materials or tools and other factors. A true craftsman also knows the line of what is necessary or appropriate. If we use a piece of high quality furniture as an example you will notice the back is not finished to the same standard, because it does not have to be. The craftsman could but the time and money does not add value to the finished product.

    To put that into perspective for our hobby, we first have to decide what the use of the finished product will be. The level of finish and materials used for the undercarriage will be different for a top level show car compared to a salt racer. A true craftsman would have corrosion protection as a high priority on the salt racer.

    So to summarize, to be a craftsman you have to know what the appropriate standard of fit, form and function is. You have to research what is the most appropriate method of achieving this. Only then do your manual skills come into play to produce it. You will know you have reached craftsman status when you are happy that you have built and achieved the outcome you desired.
     
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  23. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    I always figured to build a period hotrod you should try an make it look like something from the period it would have been built in. Doesn't mean unsafe construction, but welds don't need to be beautiful to be strong and if rattle can was good (or even brush painting) go for it. Some folks aren't happy unless their cars look like something from the Grand National Roadster show, I just prefer cars that I'm not afraid to get scratched up a bit and look at home in dirt pits at a drag strip that survived in the 1960s.
     
  24. 41 GMC K-18
    Joined: Jun 27, 2019
    Posts: 3,561

    41 GMC K-18
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Always strive for it !

    old fashioned.JPG
     
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  25. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,707

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Foe craftsmanship I do the best work that I know how : sometimes (especially bodywork/sheetmetal ) I will remove & redo or replace earlier work as I get better. I'm building a "survivor", so I sometimes have to stop & tell myself that : "It's NOT a show-truck, but rather a work truck that isn't supposed to be pretty, just presentable : it's got to earn a living!"
     
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  26. Reidy
    Joined: May 13, 2016
    Posts: 221

    Reidy
    Member

    A true craftsman also knows what their limitations are. It would be a very special person who is a world class craftsman in bodywork, painting, upholstery, and engine building but from what I have seen here there are same that can achieve high standards in most areas.
     
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  27. what Squirrel said!
     
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  28. Dang, man, you took the words right out of my mouth. I agree with Jim.

    Ben
     
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  29. Perfection doesn’t exist.
    Build to suit yourself. Not a message board or some guy down the street.
    I build to suit the situation. Or make things as nice as the person can write the check.
    My personal view of “perfection” is running and driving in as close to as found condition as possible.
    As far as craftsmanship or learning I chose to surround myself with people better than myself. If you want to be a great musician I would suggest hanging out with em. I wanted to learn body work so I found a school then ended up in a local rod shop. I read magazines on the subject, attended every work shop I could, went to trade shows, now we can google just about anything you want.
    Ya need friends. Friends with machine shops, fab equipment, body shops.........and dive in.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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