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The Mad Parrot (Building/racing the 318 Poly)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dolmetsch, Jan 20, 2011.

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  1. I am on a new project now.Thanks to McTim and his encouragement and the success of his Ford Y block I decided to do a 318 Poly for my Rail. Gary Palovich aka MR Poly is also a friend and has been for a long time. I started my career in Drag racing with a 318 (Canadian 313 but it is the same basic motor ) the picture below is that motor. I have had another too and raced it as well but that was pre 70s. Now it is to give one of these motors a serious squeeze. I have a plan. I need to make 490 to 500 HP. No stroker either. That often complicates the process. This project is well under way even now and I will show what is taking place along the way. $$$$$$$ will be the biggest obstacle so this will be a low buck build but it wont be low power. Here is the modified plenum intake. I will post as I go. I hope there will be a few interested.
    Don
     

    Attached Files:

  2. hemislave
    Joined: Nov 14, 2010
    Posts: 23

    hemislave
    Member

    I will definately be watching !...:)
     
  3. stealthcruiser
    Joined: Dec 24, 2002
    Posts: 3,744

    stealthcruiser
    Member

    ..............................................
    .....................Are your home made pistons going in this build?:eek: :D
    I'll be watching as well!!!.................Me likey Poly Motors!!!
     
  4. swifty
    Joined: Dec 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,727

    swifty
    Member

    Yep I"ll be watching and learning too. Ive been a fan of the 318 Poly for nearly 50 years.

    swifty
     

  5. moparforlife
    Joined: Feb 21, 2009
    Posts: 351

    moparforlife
    Member
    from Rolla, MO

    Another one watching..........
     
  6. FuryUs63
    Joined: Nov 6, 2010
    Posts: 12

    FuryUs63
    Member

    Don,

    Can't wait to see this one. Looks like some real hands on power.

    Nick Tiberio
    FuryUs63
     
  7. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,701

    Abomination
    Member

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  8. I brought home the block today. 4 inch bore now so cubes is 3.31X100+2 = 333 cubes. My test piston looks like it will do the job. It will need a visit to the mill and the lathe but the basics are there I think from inital checking. Fired up the Sr Dragster today just to stir the blood a bit. It must be spring!
    Don
    Yeah, I am in regular touch with Gary as we often talk by phone. HE is an old friend He is free to use what he wishes for sure.
     
  9. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 679

    llonning
    Member

    I will be watching as well. Always interested in the things that you come up with. Gets the mind to working.
     
  10. The piston I choose looks like it will work. The Dodge pin is .010 larger so it took only a few minutes to take care of enlaging the pin bore. to the 318 size. Now the 318 has full floating pins. The new piston has no pin lock grooves. I have put them in before but it is a lot of wrk. 360 Dodge rods are pressed pins, take the same bearings and pins and are the same length but substantially stronger. I mentioned to my pal I needed a set of 360 rods. He hapened to be scrapping a bunch of old engine parts to the scrap dealer and in the pile was a complete set of 360 Doge rods. All I had to do was push the pins out , scrap the pistons and trade him my old stuff as well. No $$$$$$$$$. I love it when a plan comes together. New pistons are a bit heavier but not that much. I thnk I can make it all work with a bit of judicious machining. Compression will be sustantially higher.These pistons are also much stronger. The motor is trying to build itself I think. What piston? I give a hint. It has 1167 cast in it.
    Don
     
  11. Hey Don, I guess I've been too busy tring to get my 350ci Y together I didn't see you had a thread going on your Poly. Keep it up and post some pix here.

    I am headed up to Bigredtodds today to pick up my LSR tuck the will recieve the 350 Y but also on the way home I will stop in Fresno to pick up a 241 Poly that I am going to freshen up for another member here. :D I'll post some pix as it comes along, it's going in a '23 Dodge roadster I'm told. ;)
     
  12. pcterm2
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 551

    pcterm2
    Member

    Another one watching - of course when you done,will need vids
     
  13. Should be a fun build! All best with the 350cu in too!
    I have been preoccupied too. As well as HAMB I am also a HAM (VE3LYX)so when it got too cold in the shop, out came the vintage ham radio building hobby. 1920s style. Got the last project, a 1 tube receiver, up and running last week so its back to the shop . In fact I was in there this morning already, running the lathe. .
    Don
     
  14. No kidding Don, my dad was a HAM all his life (he passed away in '07 at 88) W6MUV. I grew up watching him build his own stuff and going to "field days" with him. Our old house still has his 60 meter antenna on top, he moved out in '04. lol
     
  15. moonman29
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 169

    moonman29
    Member

    Another one following here. I'm also in the process of building one myself. Its just a slightly modified street engine that is going into my 66 Satellite.
     
  16. Neat. Well it is a good hobby. My Dad was a radio design engineer. He designed the radios for the Avro Arrow. That is where I got my radio stuff from I guess. He was into cars a bit and had a 39 Chev coupe till last year. He is getting kinda shaky to be driving it. His brother , older brother was a mechanic and a very very good one. He was a GM guy but I was fortunate enuf to work with him near the end of his career. He taught me lots. He taught me never let complication get in the way of your thinking. An engine is an engine is an engine. They all work the same. The fact they they are more complicated has nothing to do with working on them or diagnosis . It speaks only to time required. Somedays I could kiss the ground he walked on. A very strong influence on how I think now. My Dad was similar. ("If you dont try it, it wont work. That is for sure" )
    So now we know where you learned to be so creative. I find the two hobbies very similar.
    Don
    Got word my pal Harry found a set of the pistons I am using CHEAP! He didnt ask, he just ordered them. I better get cracking!
    We did a 318 poly for a 66 fury a few years back. I basically supervised a friend as he built it. That way he can say he built the motor. Ford truck (390 ) headers worked with a flange change and a couple of modes.
     
  17. Polara Pat
    Joined: Oct 22, 2009
    Posts: 65

    Polara Pat
    Member

    I've always thought that building a performance Poly would be a good idea but usually got shot down by my Mopar buddies due to the lack of speed parts available and the minimal weight difference (I think 40# less) to an RB. I'll be watching as well. I have a few of these motors kicking around, maybe I'll have to recommission one.
     
  18. Never Listen to you buddies. NEVER!
    Reasons are.
    1 They want to be ahead of you even if they dont conciously know it.
    2 Unless they have built one they simply dont know what they are talking about.
    3 Success is not a democratic function. Just because 14 out of 15 people think it is a dumb idea doesnt mean diddly squat.
    I am actually great encouraged when someone poo poos my ideas.
    I know they dont know.
    I know i am probably the first or the first person they know to try it.
    I know I did this for a living for 40 years and supplied them with power for maybe 15 or 20 while they drove a truck or flipped burgers or something. . All the sudden they "know." What happened . Were they struck by lightning? Nope tis usually "The GREEN MONSTER", jealousy.
    And I know then I have to make it work.
    Build it of you want. Base your enjoyment of the hobby on your interests, not someone elses. Poly wieghs 575, a RB 650 .
    How much encouragement from my buddies do you think I got when I built the Sr Dragster?
    When it wound up on TV and in two mags they went bezerk.
    Don
     
  19. Well if your poking around YOu tube look for Ham Radio After Dark. It is right in there with the dragster and casting stuff. Some old fart wth fat knarled paws pounding brass in the dark 1930s style. Looks like a grizzly bear trying to run a typewriter.
    Don
     
  20. My father became W6MUV in 1932 when the house at the ranch did not have electricity or indoor plumbing. One of the things I am building now is the old 1/2 hp Sears & Roebuck (B/S) engine that he bought to run a home made generator to power his equipment. He knew something about working in the dark, at his peak I believe he could send 40+ words a minute. If you can't tell I am very proud of my Ol' man.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Polara Pat
    Joined: Oct 22, 2009
    Posts: 65

    Polara Pat
    Member


    A bit more response than I would have expected but it's good to know you have an opinion on the topic. You're one of the few guys that might not shake his head and slowly back away when they hear that we're building a turbo charged slant six with six Mikunis for our '66 Belvedere wagon...then again.
     
  22. yardgoat
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 724

    yardgoat
    Member

    Wishing you all the best Don on your Poly build.Will be waching very close.Iv got a 64 Dodge polara 330 4dr with poly power,2 bbl carb,push button auto trans,runs sweet but im a bit greedy id like more from her.I do have a cast iron 4 bbl intake,wish it was set up for the afb carb and not the wcfb? or close to that.Good luck.............................YG
     
  23. McTim,
    Wow, I never made it past 15 words and at 14 I am sweating now. Still the vntage style with its squealing regens and glowing tubes does it for me. Awesome stuff your Dad. Sounds Like you had a good relationship.
    Re my comments. Surprised? Opinions are something I am not short of. Everyone tells me theirs and somewhere in that I decided they would hear mine too. Didnt mean to startle you.
    Now if you have been watchng for long you will know that 6 mikunis and a turbo on a slant wouldn't bother me at all. I havent done it together but I haver done 6 Tillotsons and I have done a Turbo. Here are the pics. Turbo was early seventies.
    Re cast iron 4 bbrl. This one was a WCFB too. I just out it on the mill and chewed to bring it into the modern age. Much of the performance we get in manifolding comes from plenums as if you think about it runners dont lend theselves to a lot of redesign for dual planes.
    Don
     

    Attached Files:

  24. There's two ways that come immediately to mind: throw $$$ at it, or a power adder.

    Well, there went the easy way! :D I'm guessing a 6-71, a pair of T3/T4s, or a 250 kit are out of the question, too, huh?

    That really only leaves one option. Thinking. Really thinking, way outside the box.

    BTW, I think that this should be quoted for truth:

    'cause if you do what everybody else does, you'll get what they do.

    -Bill
     
  25. You know Don, now that I think about it 40 wpm seems a bit fast. He used a double throw key (or whatever it's called) and he was fast but it may be more around 25 wpm. to be honest I'm not really sure, 40 seemed to stick in my head though. :rolleyes:
     
  26. Oh I didnt doubt it. It is just not something I can do. I am a plodder. I knew a fellw in Morrisburg Ont who could do 60wpm in his head. It blew my mind. I fought learning the code for years and so didnt get my ticket till 1980 when I finally grew up and told myself , "Dulmage, if you want to be a ham learn the code. if not shut up thinking about it." It took only 6 weeks to get enuf for my first ticket. Now i enjoy it. Then I hated it. Oh yeah. Double paddle keyer "a bug"
    Re my plan. No power adders. That is for certain.
    Science and hard work and planning.
    here is the scoop.
    333 cu in, 11 to1 comp, 286 @050 duration 110 LC .600 lift (.575 net lift because lift = gross lift MINUS lash) 1.88 intake valves 1.625 exhaust. At least 230 cfm flow at 28 inches H20 intake. Exhaust 60 to 74 % of that. Reworked 4 bbl intake , 750 Holly VSec. Headers . It should do it and will have to hit just under 7000 to pull it off with nothing going wrong but I think it is doable. I may be wrong but I will have a lot of fun trying. I have done a lot of research and planning and simulator runs . I know some guys get wonderful figures on sinmulation programs (because they lie to it.) I have used them for years and usually we run within 1 to 2 tenths of the plan at worst. Several we have run to the 1 hundreth of prediction so I am comfy with that. We shall see. Biggest obstacle is health and time. Will I feel well enuf to work on it and will I live long enuf to get it done. Been to 5 funerals , two of racer friends in the last 3 months. I am feeling my mortalitiy. Pistons arrived this morning. Wife stepped up and paid for them grinning, saying Happy Birthday, old boy. (It isnt till US Memorial day but Ill take it.) He found me 8 NOS 400 ford pistons for $150. I already had one and reworked it slightly (widened intake valve relief, refit pin hole to Dodge pin (.010 more). Block is already bored and I was given a set of 360 press fit rods last week. (Same guy who found the pistons. ) The motor seems to be building itself almost.
    Don
     
  27. burger
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 2,347

    burger
    Member
    from burbs

    Hey Don,

    I always enjoy reading your posts. Would you mind adding few more words to explain what you did to the plenum? I'm just a young(ish) guy trying to learn!


    Thanks,
    Ed
     
  28. Hey Don, great frankenstein 318 you are building there. I have no doubt you can make those power levels from the Poly - I always thought the potential is there in those old beauties. Stock they make a boat load of torque, and if you can get the heads to flow, spinning 7 grand should not be an issue for it. The intake kinda worries me as a restriction, but Stock eliminator engines have to use the stock intake and make wicked power, so it might just work for you!

    Good luck and let Poly squawk!
     
  29. Here's hoping!
    Plenum
    Plenum is opened up to match a holley four bbl two slot space ALL the way to the bottom. Sharpe edges rounded. ports matched to gasket.
    Don
     
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Hell of a big cam Don.:eek::D Subscribed. Are we going to get more info on the head work? I find sym programs very useful as well, especially for stuff that is going to run on pump gas.
     
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